September 25, 2009 92 Comments

Feeling the Community

Tonight, I was talking to a new friend, someone who’s participated here for a while, but also someone I’d yet to meet in person. I asked her how she was doing, and it led to an interesting conversation. You see, a friend of her’s passed recently, and it brought up the question, “did you REALLY want to know?” She knew that I did, but we got into a chat about how sometimes, companies and people want us to feel that they care about us, but they don’t, and we know it. We feel it. Until we feel the right community, and we know they want us for who we are.

We ask people all the time how they’re doing, and rarely do we really want the deep story. But when we’re among people who care, when we’re among people who know about us, or people like us, then things change a bit. Right?

There are languages we use with these different communities. If I’m talking with Star Trek folks, I can talk about red shirts and they’ll smirk appropriately. If I talk to business people about company valuations, they know what’s what. My Dad talks poker so well that I have to ask him to educate me on the phrases from time to time, but then I can use that language when I talk with other poker folks.

There are ways we react and treat each other. In skateboarding communities, scars and scrapes are treasures to talk about. Failure is all part of learning to them. In San Francisco startup culture, failure’s a badge, too. But in New England, we treat things a bit more cautiously.

One thing’s for certain: you can’t fake community, and you can’t force it, either.

Just because I just bought the Panasonic DMC-LX3K (amazon link) doesn’t immediately mean that I want to join a community for that particular camera. But then, if I do, it’s hopefully to talk with other enthusiasts who are then going to encourage me or grow my skillset or provide some other value.

We don’t just join communities because we like a product or service or thing. We gather around people who feel what we feel, and we share passion for things that bring us some sense of pleasure or joy, or even healing.

Where are your communities? Where do you belong? What do you get from there? And finally, what would you tell the company who seeks to participate in a community with you?

photo credit wili_hybrid

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robrose

Chris,
I agree wholeheartedly with you on the fact that we gather around “like-minded” or the “sharing” of a passion. I guess I'd say that, in my experience, communities (certainly from a marketing perspective) coalesce around ideas – not products or services. To your point, there are multiple communities that can form around a Panasonic product; from a #thisproductsucks to a #lovinmyDMCLS3K – and I dare say that the members of each wouldn't have a terrible amount of love for each other on that particular idea.

But they might on others… And I think that's the real key – it's that same ease at which communities can form online that is both their biggest strength and the biggest risk (I won't say weakness). Communities are fast and furious today – and we find ourselves joining and leading just as often as we are subdividing and closing them.

The true test for ourselves as members, and those where we facilitate leadership, is how we can continue to hold attention, passion and grow the engagement. And, further, if it does end – how quickly can we react to something to take it's place.

As marketers, we can facilitate the conversation, and build that community – but we earn our real stripes by being attentive enough to quickly reshape or subdivide the community should it be warranted.

Thanks for a great post. It's got me thinking. And my sincere condolences to your friend.

~rr
mickmorris

So true….. I really think we need to re-think this practice of asking this question if you are really not interested in the REAL story….. If you are interested the reality is you learn so much more about not only the person you are speaking to, but potentially a whole lot about a circumstance or situation which you may not have experienced personally, or you pick up a detail which will REALLY let you engage with the person.
http://www.bethdunn.org BethDunn

When I read your question, I immediately thought of a place I went to tonight, a regular gathering of friends with a common interest, and as I pulled into the driveway I thought of how SAFE I felt in arriving. It was a feeling of arriving at a place of refuge, and of being someplace where I knew I was cared for.

So in regards to your question, thinking about online relationships and relationships with companies, I wonder about what we do to make each other feel safe… and cared for… and what do we do to violate that feeling, or to prevent it from taking root in the first place? (if that's not too fruity a way to think of things for a bunch of urbane sophisticates like us.)

Even if this seems like an impossibly high standard to hold our online relationships to (is it?), I feel certain that when we feel the opposite — unsafe and devalued — that we run the other way.

So what I would tell any company who wants MY company is: (1) Don't ever give me any reason to feel unsafe, or uncared for, and (2) I am the expert on what that means for me.

We've had a few losses around here this week, too. My deepest empathy to your friend.
http://twitter.com/steve_e Steve Evans

Nice thoughts. Community is a powerful thing and can be game changing for brands if they can play nicely in communities or create their own around a product or service. You're right that companies want us to feel like they care about us, but can you actually think of one that does make you feel like that (without making you feel slightly sceptical)? I can think of plenty of local businesses who I think care about my custom and opinion but when it comes to large brands I can't think of any that give me a warm feeling of community. Lot's of work to do in this area for brands!
http://www.relenet.com/ tomrau

Thanks for your thoughts on this Chris.
Regarding the product related communities I'm with Rob. Your right when you say you don't necessarily want to join a community just because you bought the same product. but some products are just so emotionally charged that people tend to have strong feelings for them. Whether this is hate or love doesn't really make a difference, as long as you can identify with one of these, communities will evolve as people are searching for like minded others.
I also agree with what Steve mentioned. It is very difficult to believe a big company when they say “We care about you”. But I have to admit, when I have a request or a complaint with a big company I feel appreciated when I do get a clear reaction solving my problem. On the other hand, when nothing happens I feel like I've been taken for a ride by the companies slogan.
This does not only apply to companies, but to communication in general. When someone sees value in your question or contact this make you feel much better. Even when I can't be given a solution or an answer but at least get a kind response why it's not possible. I followed your presentation yesterday on http://authorsway.com/ and there you where talking about the little things of kindness when interacting with other people and I agree with you. We all know how its done, but hardly ever really do it.
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daniellieberman

Social Media changes everything for the better because it expands the supply of Community and Connection and lowers the 'Price'.

We wind up with more Community to work with in our Social Media universe. Communities are 'Cheap' to start, join, and expand. Think about the relative cost of staying in touch with your personal community before Facebook cut the price for you…
http://www.honeybeeconsulting.com startabuzz

In our personal lives (which can certainly include our engagements online), that sense of community is so important. In order to preserve and restore ourselves, we have to be with people who are of like minds, with whom we can relax and let our hair down. I feel very fortunate to have some groups in which I can be comfortable doing that.

In this vein, I'm lucky to live in a town that's VERY small (really … it's like Mayberry). There are several businesses in town, restaurants & little shops, where the owners (and patrons) know me by name and always welcome me warmly (I'm like Norm on Cheers), ask how my family is, how things are going … and they actually CARE. That sense of belonging makes my experiences in those places so much more comforting and memorable than if I just went in to Restaurant X at “The Mall”.

With larger companies, I think there are several that are really TRYING. But with size comes the problem of scale (which we seem to come back to time and again). When you're dealing with tens or hundreds of thousands of people, establishing real community becomes quite difficult. But those companies, and their community leaders, can do their parts by listening when people talk, whether they're discussing a problem, making a suggestion, or offering praise. Like @tomrau said below, when a large corporation responds to something I've said (with something other than an auto-generated email), it always makes me good; I know they've heard me. A small step, sure, but as we've established, it's the little things that matter.
http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

So just being acknowledged makes a powerful difference, eh?
http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

Isn't it funny that just by being noticed, we feel a bit better? I wonder when that will be the price for doing business, the way basic customer support is today.
http://ghostfolk.blogspot.com/ Randy Russell

I think the world is made up of small towns, wherever we live. Within you town, when someone asks “how are you doing?” they expect to hear (and listen to) an answer. In the South in a small town, you can't buy a postage stamp without hearing how the young ones and the grandmas are doing. In fact, it is rude to exchange money without at least a small, personal conversation — whether you know the money-taker or not. Is it possible, the internet is also a bunch of small towns? I think it migt be.
http://www.honeybeeconsulting.com startabuzz

It certainly can (assuming the acknowledgment is something other than, “Shut yer yap, ya durned harpy!”) :)
greggmorris

You talked some in your Author's Way presentation yesterday about the different languages we use among the different communities we belong. I hadn't really connected those dots until you said that but having now made those connections, I am wondering if it's not the use of those very same languages that gives us the indications of the sincerity of our communities? How was it that your friend sensed your genuine interest if not through your language and it's expression? Is that something we should all be paying a little more attention to as we interact with companies and people?
http://www.honeybeeconsulting.com startabuzz

And I see what you did there. Clever. ;)
Michael Bailey

I don't disagree, however, the third question that gets asked is always, “How are you going to monetize that?”

From that point on, the whole “Community” is messed up. Just like your earlier post about the quality or relevance of the ads on Facebook. Well, no matter what value the FB community might create, the members certainly are not making it sustainable, since it's a free site.

So, one side of the equation is always a Utopian community, while the other portion is always reality, sustainability, and good old fashioned capitalism. Like oil and water, however, they don't ever mix well.
jeffreylapointe

I like your attitude – it's the right attitude. Find what you like and share why you like it – not to gain friends or create buzz – but to elevate the feeling of what made you do something in the first place. It's like the old saying that 1+1 is more that two – but only when you are sincere. Reminds of the 9th insight from the Celestine prophecy about like energies creating something entirely more – isn't that what a community is?
http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

It's a really tricky thing to consider. My question back: do they need it?
http://www.relenet.com/ tomrau

Being noticed and being appreciated. Yes, it's so simple when you think of it. Just recently I've been to a new restaurant round the corner. Looks real fancy, with lots of well dressed waiters running around. But although I was there in regular clothes (sneakers, jeans, t-shirt and even a hoodie*) I was treated like I was an important guest they had expected. Tell you what, I've been there again a couple of times and plan to continue visiting.

*as a bonus the manager was also only wearing jeans, nice a shirt and Chuck Taylor Allstars
http://www.honeybowtie.com/blog/ Kate O'

I was having a related conversation with a friend yesterday about how much community we really want. You just bought the camera; yes, it'd probably be presumptuous for Panasonic to invite you into an enthusiast community already, but perhaps letting you know it exists would influence your appreciation for the product, leading you to join the community more readily than you might have on your own. Could something so subtle even influence the probability of your becoming an enthusiast at all? I suspect it could, and predictably, I would want to test it. :)

The earlier part of your post also reminds me of what @mdave was asking you at lunch about the dilution of intimacy with the increase of popularity. I was thinking about how that seems true, but how, like you said about Twitter and serendipity, the broad base of connections gives rise to a whole new opportunity for intimacy in cases where someone you barely know relates an experience you can relate to. I've become fast friends from strangers through Twitter because of people talking about losing a loved one to cancer, for example. I think it's like how a lot of our communication is evolving these days: maybe not everyone wants to hear our details and the real answer to how we're doing, but if we answer those phatic questions with candor, authenticity, a little humor, and an interest in genuine connection with others, there's a good chance we'll find new intimacies.
http://www.enigmawellness.com/ Pixie Stevenson

I like what you say about the languages we use in different communities. If we don't speak the verbal or cultural language, communication is challenging. I think too that we join and create communities because we all have a yearning to belong. My personal communities are eclectic – social media marketers, life coaches, alternative health professionals; on Facebook it's family & friends; on LinkedIn it's professionals, including attorneys from a past life career; my soccer community . . . each one cares about something else with varying degrees of interest.

If I would say anything to a company, it would be what you say – LISTEN TO ME.
http://thelostjacket.com Stuart Foster

It's amazing what listening and being a genuine caring person can do for your life and your business.

Community can't survive without the help of good people. Your support appears to have helped another member continue to be a part of this community.
http://alexliminc.com/ Alex Lim

You're absolutely right Chris,

There is no such thing as force conversation in communities, it all comes naturally. You can feel sincerity with people you are sharing thoughts with, all for the purpose of growth and cultivation of relationships. Indeed, a common language is one factor of a certain community that keeps the members connected.
http://www.cleanairsys.com/ LR

Hi Chris,

Right after I read your post on community, I opened an email containing the following quote – how timely!

“We are individual designs in the fabric of life: We have our own integrity, but simultaneously we are part of the fabric, connected to and defined by the whole. Community is the human dimension of that fabric.” ~ Tom Atlee
http://twitter.com/kylechowning Kyle Chowning

This reminds me of Seth's talk about building tribes. Great post Chris.

I would say that I am super critical of companies wanting to join a community. It makes me question your intentions. Rarely do you find one that does it respectfully.
Sly M

I have been thinking a lot about this lately. I've been highly disappointed recently after painfully having to admit that the nice folks who seemed so welcoming and interested were only sizing up my value to them. There seems to be a lot of that in online communities and perhaps that is more a reflection of my expectations.

To me, the Net communities today resembles the Wild West; there are pioneers, homesteaders, entrepreneurs and no small amount of snake oil salespeople pretending to care.
http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

Wow! I love thos. Wow.
http://www.tooprettyforthis.com Christina

I agree with what you're saying, but I think we could take your story a little further to show a potential problem.

When someone asks, “How are you?” and we believe they really want to know and tell them — only to find out the question wasn't in earnest — we feel embarrassed or hurt. If brands act like they care and we find out (after trusting them) that they don't, our reaction won't be to just find a new community. It would probably also result in a bad opinion that spreads quickly by word of mouth.

That's worse than if they'd never acted like they cared.

It's best for any brand to be very careful in how they engage. Make sure it's something that can be genuine and sustained long-term.
http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

It's quite crazy, this blend of intimacy and dissonance, the rise and fall of formal organization. I'm thinking about how chaos impacts pattern. God… I need a nap. :)
http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

Yep. Making money off the back of community can be really tricky. It takes a lot of thinking to do it in a genuine and stewardship-minded way.
http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

Bingo, Gregg. You're thinking the way I am.
http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

Sawubona – I see you.
emilycaswell

The “pretending to care” that Sly M mentions is what first came to my mind. Anyone can learn the language of a particular community if they want to belong, but I think they can also use that to manipulate. What I'd tell a company seeking to participate: be sincere, have good intentions. I like how you use my words to make me comfortable, but don't use that comfort level to take advantage.
greggmorris

Since I have come to have such high regard for your thinking, that might just be the highest compliment I've ever been paid. Thank you. I'm working on a post that I've titled “The Language of Community.” Inspired by what you said yesterday and this post of yours of course. It occurred to me that this community language is not only what binds us together, it's what also causes our disconnects as well. There was a wee bit of s*#t storm that developed on a marketing blog that has a very loyal community earlier in the week. It centered around your book and AListers. (I'm a ZLister mind you <g>.) Anyway, I follow and like a lot of the folks on both sides that were participating in this particularly heated debate. I went back and reread the comments earlier this morning after “connecting the dots” and realized that much of that debate was due in large part to the “language” differences of the two communities. While they all spoke English, the language and nuance of each community was completely different.
http://metamarketer.com/ Kate O'

Maybe you do need a nap, but that doesn't mean you're not on to something.

When we discern patterns in chaos, we assign meaning. Is it arrogant to suppose that we can construct meaning accidentally-on-purpose by injecting chaos into patterns to try to create more patterns? Perhaps, but I do think there's an argument that it's has become more possible, and is now quite a marketable skill. :)
http://www.thinklikeablackbelt.com/ Lori Hoeck

Isn't the Golden Rule timeless — Treat people as you wish to be treated.

What happened to our society that caused being cool, hiding behind a brand or authority, pandering, political correctness, and putting on a good face to be so ingrained that we have to re-discover value of trust, transparency, genuineness, and honest interactions?
http://twitter.com/CluelessCrafter Lydia Barry Kutko

While a lot of us join communities to share like minded interests, I have found that I join communities that encourage me to grow, to be aspirational and move beyond my particular comforts into a new level of understanding.

When we blog, we need to think of a myriad of motives for joining a community in order to communicate effectively.
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addytseng

I think we can gauge very quickly whether the greeter (“How are you?”) wants a long answer or a short answer. When it's a wave and a shout while continuing walking, it's just a embellished “Hi, I see you”. When the greeter stops, establishes eye contact, she signals her intention to engage.

It cuts both ways too. When you don't care to share (or not convenient to), you answer “Good!” and continue walking, right?

But when someone asks me something specific like “How's Bob? I heard he almost died” or “Did you get that contract?” I now have some ground to build the relationship on and the choice is mine. Remember, it works boths ways.

“How are you?” is just a starter for “What's on your mind?”
Maybe we need to find a new greeting phrase….(?)

I like to tell the story that in the community I grew up as a kid, the greeting was “Have you eaten yet?” Yes, I am Chinese and for us, life centers around food! LOL
No! That would not work for everybody!
http://blastoffpress.com/ BlastOff Network

like-minded community is what people love and it changes everything in online activities and these decision making atmosphere http://www.blastoffpress.com/
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campaignshoutin

Outside of the PR and marketing world — can we do that here? — I would add that there is a strong benefit to our lives as humans in creating community with people we DON'T agree with. Online, it's very easy to associate with our like-minded compadres, and that's great. I'm very, very thankful that I can find people online who share my passions, people who I would never have found offline. But I do appreciate very much the “general” experience: spending time with neighbors, whether I vote like them or not. Reading a daily newspaper, in addition to my favorite narrowly focused websites and blogs. I'm not the first to suggest that we lose a little bit of general community in the era of niche cable TV and websites. Obviously that's not a reason to abandon the wonderful online world I'm a part of. It's just something to be aware of.
Christine Christman

Great thoughts. Dan Lumpkin of Lumpkin and Associates has a wonderful theory on corporations and industries as “tribes” with all of their own languages, codes and rituals. Sorry I don't have his site handy but find him on LinkedIn.
suzyoge

Four years ago, I initiated a community of entrepreneurial women in the Netherlands, including the physical space to meet, connect and work. Just yesterday I blogged about the membership cancellation of a member who had a more traditional expectation of how a business network should function. Some people don't get the value of the community because the biggest benefits are intangible. The ones who do, say they wouldn't want to live without it!

Suzy
http://www.joshchandlerblog.com Josh Chandler

Does the use of hashtags on Twitter cause a slightly disjointed conversation? I mean, the sharing in the thoughts and opinions of camera users via “X Hashtag” can become such a dispersed matter. There is certainly no easy way for companies to latch on to active discussions and “feel the community”. You really tend to only get them from more targeted single-focussed communities on blogs. Right?
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http://www.brianhamlett.com Brian Hamlett

Chris -

This is truly a fantastic post and the reason for it is that it easily and quickly communicates what most of the “average web users” think about social media right now. That it is either the place of all the social media 'guru' wannabes that are just connecting with you to promote their services of “how to get 100,000 followers in 30 days” OR it is the other e-capitalists that follow everyone to them spam them with comments selling their wares.

Interestingly, this also applies on more specific community web sites as well. I've been a member of a LinkedIn group that started out very conversational with great discussions and watched it over time become a place where everyone was “shouting” their posts over everyone else. The conversation died. The connection you felt to the group died and people started to leave.

We want to belong. We want to feel like we belong. If you are not really listening because you really do not care, then the other person will eventually feel that they do not belong and will move on.

I have a passion for business ownership. I love talking to other business owners about what they may be going through, so if you are coming to connect to me to talk business, I'll give you all the time I can spare to listen to you and help in any way. So I try and focus my efforts to attract my “true audience” to form a community instead of grabbing anyone I can to create a large audience of people from all different walks of life and then spamming them with my service. It's counterproductive, it's of no value to anyone in the group, and to me it's downright rude!

Thanks for continuing to share how we all need to be true to who we are, who we want to connect to and how we need to treat them well for them even giving us the time of day!
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http://twitter.com/iRobt Robt.D.McKenzie

Around here, folks (used to) reply,”I'm fair to midling. Thanks for asking.” If they pursued the subject it was liscense.
hoongyeeleekrakauer

hi chris
i think a lot about how much simpler it would be if we all remembered the rules of the schoolyard as we create community. for me, building my board has been guided by an unorthodox radar system of good energy seeking other good energy. while i may not have the traditional mix of “work, wisdom and wealth” , i do have a dedicated and diverse crew of board trustees who are part of many communities tied to my organization and bring their collective strengths together often resulting in unexpected results.

so, my offering to this discussion is that community is at its best as a creative and joyful endeavor.

cheers, hoongyee
http://bit.ly/FewMe
http://www.sitesketch101.com Nicholas Z. Cardot

Wow. That's really good. It's interesting because I run a website about blogging and surprisingly I have people join in with our conversations who don't even have blogs. Then they make comments like, “I love being a part of the community here just because Nick is so personal and approachable.”

It really isn't always about the theme of the community as much as it is about the feeling of the community. Most people genuinely want to connect with people, express their opinions, and be accepted.

Feeling the Community

ChrisBrogan.com runs on the Genesis Framework

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