Marketing is NOT Social Media-Social Media is NOT Marketing

ant Have you ever had that experience where you realize that you actually KNOW something, versus feeling like you’re still learning it? For instance, when you go from having to think which one is a G chord on a guitar and which one is a C (guitar players: did you just flash to a visualization of the positioning?), what does that feel like? That knowing?

When we learn, we train and practice and absorb and theorize and experience and all kinds of other little parts that form the whole of our understanding. There is a lot that goes into the practice of learning and knowing HOW to do something.

What if what you learned was wrong?

Or at least not what you need to get to the next level?

Disclaimer First

I’m not in any way a trained marketer. I’ve taken no courses whatsoever in the practice. I’ve never held the job title, nor have my efforts at any role where I’ve been paid involved, directly, marketing. And yet, some of you are already saying, “Oh, but we’re ALL marketers, Chris.” True. But you see the distinction, right? I’m not a marketer the same way someone who uses a hammer isn’t a carpenter.

I have a saying I use a lot lately: “bad marketing is bad.” This is to permit a little bit of credit to my friends in the profession and/or some others who I think do a great job of doing what they do. And yet, it’s true. And bad marketing is bad because it doesn’t have the same impact it used to have when we didn’t know any better.

Marketing is a Discipline: Social Media are Tools

Here’s where I’m going with this: marketers trying to come into social media and rapidly become versed in the tools and believe what they’re doing is social media, are probably doomed to a lot of pain and disappointment along the way. Marketers who come into social media and feel that these tools will deliver the same kinds of clean stats and clear cut wins and campaign thinking overall are doomed as well.

Marketing is a discipline with lots of emphasis on channel thinking, on campaigns, on message shaping, on control and covering all the bases.

Social media is a set of tools that permit regular people access to potential audiences of shared interest. These tools give voice, give preference, give rise to individuality, give flexibility, collaborative opportunity, and a whole lot of other things that don’t resemble traditional marketing the same way gym class felt absolutely nothing like social studies.

Marketers have tools. They understand what they do very well. They understand lead acquisition, and brand strategy, and all kinds of things that the folks who use social media tools could really do to understand before knocking.

And yet.

Social Media is A Bug’s Life

The movement behind these tools, or the energy that these tools open up, or the way we use these tools when we practice social media is something utterly different from the effects generated by traditional marketing. It’s all in the aggregate, and the ability for us, the “little guy,” to speak up to the universe in ways both positive and righteously indignant. In short, ants.

At the end of A Bug’s Life, the main character, Flick, finally convinces all the ants that they have to stand up to the grasshoppers who’ve kept them repressed for years. It’s the same story Hollywood loves to tell, and that we love to see. The little guy stands up, and everyone outweighs the power of the few.

It’s what happens when we all have a voice, and distribution, and the ability to get together and say something. It’s when we get that rare chorus moment instead of the dissonance we often muster. It CAN be something amazing.

Know When To Use Which

If you’re Burger King and you’re looking to influence whether I go there or not, use plain old marketing. It’s just fine. It’s the right tool for the job. So is advertising. You don’t HAVE to use social media for that.

But, if you’re Burger King and you want to understand me, to get what’s really going on inside my head, and know what we have in common, then THAT is where social media can be useful. Talk to me. Get to know me. Ask me about me and the things that aren’t about you.

Can you see how weird that would feel if given to a traditional marketer to cover?

New Things to Learn

We have lots to learn about the tools we’re using, and we all could stand to learn how various disciplines could choose to employ these tools in different ways. Further, we should learn more about the disciplines, those of us hurling stones at marketers without first understanding the value of good marketing.

Here’s one: I know for a fact, a money-in-my-pocket fact, that the difference between good marketing and bad marketing makes absolute financial impact on an organization. I can tell you because I’ve seen it flat out. Bad marketing can cost MILLIONS. Those of you who know how to do a value-based sales pitch (and I know only a little thanks to an awesome talk with Jeremiah one night in Cambridge), you will further understand how this impact is meaningful.

Now, as social media types, and would-be community builders, and people hacking where others have built professional practices that make impact and difference, we (social media) have some great opportunities to educate and share and pick up the best of marketing from good marketers and trade it for what you know about employing social media tools and the Bug’s Life mindset to help marketers understand the value of a good interaction with customers.

Which of those can YOU contribute? What do you want to learn? Where are you finding your biggest challenges with all this?

The Social Media 100 is a project by Chris Brogan dedicated to writing 100 useful blog posts in a row about the tools, techniques, and strategies behind using social media for your business, your organization, or your own personal interests. Swing by [chrisbrogan.com] for more posts in the series, and if you have topic ideas, feel free to share them, as this is a group project, and your opinion matters.

Get the entire series by subscribing to this blog.

Photo credit, cadmanof50s

Related posts:

  1. Social Media WrapUp-August
  2. Bridge Strategies for Social Media Adoption
  3. Whats Your Social Media Strategy
  4. Snake Oil In Social Media
  5. Social Media as Personal Power

ChrisBrogan.com runs on the Genesis Framework

Genesis Theme Framework

The Genesis Framework empowers you to quickly and easily build incredible websites with WordPress. Whether you're a novice or advanced developer, Genesis provides you with the secure and search-engine-optimized foundation that takes WordPress to places you never thought it could go.

With automatic theme updates and world-class support included, Genesis is the smart choice for your WordPress website or blog.

Become a StudioPress Affiliate

  • http://socialmediaexplorer.com JasonFalls

    Great post, as usual.

    The challenge I’m finding is convincing the marketers I work with that social media is different and it isn’t about hard line, quantifiable facts. That is is about discussion, conversation and exploration more so than recognition, request and conversion.

    I have said, “In order to wrap your brain around social media, you have to take everything you’ve learned about marketing and throw it out the window,” about three dozen times this month. Approaching social media as a marketer will make you fail (as you’ve pointed out above).

    While I’m making headway, I’d love to learn some tricks on how to break through the thick-headedness of some marketers to see that.

    Sharing this article with them will help. Thanks Chris.

  • http://www.socialmediaexplorer.com Jason Falls

    Great post, as usual.

    The challenge I’m finding is convincing the marketers I work with that social media is different and it isn’t about hard line, quantifiable facts. That is is about discussion, conversation and exploration more so than recognition, request and conversion.

    I have said, “In order to wrap your brain around social media, you have to take everything you’ve learned about marketing and throw it out the window,” about three dozen times this month. Approaching social media as a marketer will make you fail (as you’ve pointed out above).

    While I’m making headway, I’d love to learn some tricks on how to break through the thick-headedness of some marketers to see that.

    Sharing this article with them will help. Thanks Chris.

  • Anonymous

    Interesting post and point of view, Chris. I agree that marketing is not social media, but not necessarily that social media is not marketing. It can be at least a small contributor to any marketing effort.

    On the Burger King front, for example, with the increasing shift in the way that we consume media (to online away from mass channels), any marketing efforts that do not carry a social media component will end up reaching smaller and smaller audiences at ever increasing unit/customer acquistion cost. Clearly marketers chase an audience — hence the shift to online channels. However, you rightly point out, that these are new tools. And new tools call for new rules.

    Many marketers have little understanding of how social media works or what needs to change. This is the real value that social media “consultants” or community builders bring to the marketing business. There are some great learning opportunities on both sides … just hope that the marketing folks are listening.

  • http://www.servantofchaos.com Gavin Heaton

    Interesting post and point of view, Chris. I agree that marketing is not social media, but not necessarily that social media is not marketing. It can be at least a small contributor to any marketing effort.

    On the Burger King front, for example, with the increasing shift in the way that we consume media (to online away from mass channels), any marketing efforts that do not carry a social media component will end up reaching smaller and smaller audiences at ever increasing unit/customer acquistion cost. Clearly marketers chase an audience — hence the shift to online channels. However, you rightly point out, that these are new tools. And new tools call for new rules.

    Many marketers have little understanding of how social media works or what needs to change. This is the real value that social media “consultants” or community builders bring to the marketing business. There are some great learning opportunities on both sides … just hope that the marketing folks are listening.

  • http://www.chrisheuer.com/ Chris Heuer

    You know I love you brother, but I have some challenges with some of what you wrote here – mostly good, but a few key things where I differ.

    Saying Social Media is the tools is like saying carpentry is the tools – and carpentry is no more the hammer then social media is the video camera. Yes they are essential, important and deeply intertwined, but this fundamental disagreement changes the perspective of the article I think in a dramatic way.

    During a Google presentation today from the former CMO of YouTube Suzie Reider, I was struck by one slide in particular, where she posited that video on YouTube “was both social, and media”. My interpretation, which I hinted at in my blog post today was that this meant it was personal and intimate, while also being broadcast and mass market.

    Once again, I am coming back to rest upon the question of INTENTION – if the intention of the person using the tools is to use the tools to separate people from their pocketbooks, its just, as you said, ‘bad marketing’. If instead, people understand how and why things have changed – that it isnt an us vs. them world, but rather one in which we are all in it together. If marketers understand that they can find great personal fulfillment, professional effectiveness and true/authentic social media engagement by bringing the intention of being of service to people in their ‘market’, it can and it will be quite a different experience all around.

    This again goes back to understanding what Doc Searls talks about regarding “the because effect” – as many people I spoke with here at the Search Insider Summit discussed today, its not about the transaction, its about the experience. When the experience is genuine, not fabricated – When the experience is about an exchange of value, entertainment or creation – When the experience is a result of people being of service, organizations may make money BECAUSE of it, but not necessarily from it directly.

    Good spark my brother – lots more to discuss you media maven mad man…

  • http://www.chrisheuer.com/ Chris Heuer

    You know I love you brother, but I have some challenges with some of what you wrote here – mostly good, but a few key things where I differ.

    Saying Social Media is the tools is like saying carpentry is the tools – and carpentry is no more the hammer then social media is the video camera. Yes they are essential, important and deeply intertwined, but this fundamental disagreement changes the perspective of the article I think in a dramatic way.

    During a Google presentation today from the former CMO of YouTube Suzie Reider, I was struck by one slide in particular, where she posited that video on YouTube “was both social, and media”. My interpretation, which I hinted at in my blog post today was that this meant it was personal and intimate, while also being broadcast and mass market.

    Once again, I am coming back to rest upon the question of INTENTION – if the intention of the person using the tools is to use the tools to separate people from their pocketbooks, its just, as you said, ‘bad marketing’. If instead, people understand how and why things have changed – that it isnt an us vs. them world, but rather one in which we are all in it together. If marketers understand that they can find great personal fulfillment, professional effectiveness and true/authentic social media engagement by bringing the intention of being of service to people in their ‘market’, it can and it will be quite a different experience all around.

    This again goes back to understanding what Doc Searls talks about regarding “the because effect” – as many people I spoke with here at the Search Insider Summit discussed today, its not about the transaction, its about the experience. When the experience is genuine, not fabricated – When the experience is about an exchange of value, entertainment or creation – When the experience is a result of people being of service, organizations may make money BECAUSE of it, but not necessarily from it directly.

    Good spark my brother – lots more to discuss you media maven mad man…

  • http://www.branddialogue.com Eric Weaver

    Hey, Chris. Great post. As both a classic marketer AND a social media enthusiast, I agree with several of your points.

    One of the attractions of marketers to social media is the fact that, as individuals use social networks to find one another, marketers can use them to find the individuals we want to sell to. But being sold to is NOT why consumers come to social media venues in the first place. Good marketers get this and don’t try to get all commercial in these venues…it’s like trying to sell Amway products at a neighbor’s cocktail party…totally uncool.

    I hate Push Marketing tactics as much as the next guy. The brands that act appropriately in the social space will succeed. They’ll engage the curious with respect and without self-interest. But if they show up and start shoving intrusions in our faces in our favorite online social haunts, I think it will bite them. Hard.

  • http://www.branddialogue.com Eric Weaver

    Hey, Chris. Great post. As both a classic marketer AND a social media enthusiast, I agree with several of your points.

    One of the attractions of marketers to social media is the fact that, as individuals use social networks to find one another, marketers can use them to find the individuals we want to sell to. But being sold to is NOT why consumers come to social media venues in the first place. Good marketers get this and don’t try to get all commercial in these venues…it’s like trying to sell Amway products at a neighbor’s cocktail party…totally uncool.

    I hate Push Marketing tactics as much as the next guy. The brands that act appropriately in the social space will succeed. They’ll engage the curious with respect and without self-interest. But if they show up and start shoving intrusions in our faces in our favorite online social haunts, I think it will bite them. Hard.

  • http://www.branddialogue.com Eric Weaver

    Hey, Chris. Great post. As both a classic marketer AND a social media enthusiast, I agree with several of your points.

    One of the attractions of marketers to social media is the fact that, as individuals use social networks to find one another, marketers can use them to find the individuals we want to sell to. But being sold to is NOT why consumers come to social media venues in the first place. Good marketers get this and don’t try to get all commercial in these venues…it’s like trying to sell Amway products at a neighbor’s cocktail party…totally uncool.

    I hate Push Marketing tactics as much as the next guy. The brands that act appropriately in the social space will succeed. They’ll engage the curious with respect and without self-interest. But if they show up and start shoving intrusions in our faces in our favorite online social haunts, I think it will bite them. Hard.

  • http://www.altamirano.org Antonio

    interesting that you are talking about this. i just posted a blog entry looking at social media from a search (i.e. established business and marketing tactic) perspective vs. social media enthusiasts (i call them socialists) as having much lower barriers to entry than search.

    you can use a hammer and be picking at rocks and doing a very good job at it (social media by the masses) but you really need exhaustive training and a natural gift to produce a master piece from a piece of rock with the same proverbial hammer.

  • http://www.altamirano.org Antonio

    interesting that you are talking about this. i just posted a blog entry looking at social media from a search (i.e. established business and marketing tactic) perspective vs. social media enthusiasts (i call them socialists) as having much lower barriers to entry than search.

    you can use a hammer and be picking at rocks and doing a very good job at it (social media by the masses) but you really need exhaustive training and a natural gift to produce a master piece from a piece of rock with the same proverbial hammer.

  • http://www.altamirano.org Antonio

    interesting that you are talking about this. i just posted a blog entry looking at social media from a search (i.e. established business and marketing tactic) perspective vs. social media enthusiasts (i call them socialists) as having much lower barriers to entry than search.

    you can use a hammer and be picking at rocks and doing a very good job at it (social media by the masses) but you really need exhaustive training and a natural gift to produce a master piece from a piece of rock with the same proverbial hammer.

  • http://www.currencymarketing.ca/blog Caleb Chang

    Many traditional marketers will avoid social media because of the lack of quantifiable metrics. Life is safe in a one-way dialogue.

    As a traditional marketer I am learning about social media and I am excited and freaked out at the same time. It’s everything I wished marketing would be. It’s authentic. It allows me to gain incredible insight into people. It forces me to dive into behavioral sciences to try to grasp and understand. Alas, it’s the two-way conversation and community I have been longing for.

    I hope we bridge the chasm between social media types and those who practice marketing because there is much to learn. Let the conversation begin.

  • http://www.currencymarketing.ca/blog Caleb Chang

    Many traditional marketers will avoid social media because of the lack of quantifiable metrics. Life is safe in a one-way dialogue.

    As a traditional marketer I am learning about social media and I am excited and freaked out at the same time. It’s everything I wished marketing would be. It’s authentic. It allows me to gain incredible insight into people. It forces me to dive into behavioral sciences to try to grasp and understand. Alas, it’s the two-way conversation and community I have been longing for.

    I hope we bridge the chasm between social media types and those who practice marketing because there is much to learn. Let the conversation begin.

  • http://www.currencymarketing.ca/blog Caleb Chang

    Many traditional marketers will avoid social media because of the lack of quantifiable metrics. Life is safe in a one-way dialogue.

    As a traditional marketer I am learning about social media and I am excited and freaked out at the same time. It’s everything I wished marketing would be. It’s authentic. It allows me to gain incredible insight into people. It forces me to dive into behavioral sciences to try to grasp and understand. Alas, it’s the two-way conversation and community I have been longing for.

    I hope we bridge the chasm between social media types and those who practice marketing because there is much to learn. Let the conversation begin.

  • http://www.associatemelody.com/ Melody

    Brilliant post Chris, as a marketer I want to learn how to use social media and the tools to connect with my potential customers the right way.

    I realize it’s all about the people, getting to know them and their wants or needs. It’s not an advertising medium – there’s adwords for that.

    I think social media done right, takes patience and persistence but it can be a valuable addition to one’s marketing plan. I look forward to learning more.

    Chris, do you like to cook?

  • http://www.associatemelody.com/ Melody

    Brilliant post Chris, as a marketer I want to learn how to use social media and the tools to connect with my potential customers the right way.

    I realize it’s all about the people, getting to know them and their wants or needs. It’s not an advertising medium – there’s adwords for that.

    I think social media done right, takes patience and persistence but it can be a valuable addition to one’s marketing plan. I look forward to learning more.

    Chris, do you like to cook?

  • http://melodythacker.com/ Melody the Watkins Lady

    Brilliant post Chris, as a marketer I want to learn how to use social media and the tools to connect with my potential customers the right way.

    I realize it’s all about the people, getting to know them and their wants or needs. It’s not an advertising medium – there’s adwords for that.

    I think social media done right, takes patience and persistence but it can be a valuable addition to one’s marketing plan. I look forward to learning more.

    Chris, do you like to cook?

  • http://www.DirectMarketingMBA.com/Blog Susan F. Heywood

    Thanks for sticking up for traditional marketers who “get” social media and for warning those who don’t about the need to understand the unique nature of social media engagement before attempting to use it as they would a traditional channel.

    As a “social media type” who also happens to be a (somewhat non-traditional) marketer, I think there is a distinction to be made among marketers.

    Not all marketers see social media as another channel to be used to push a one-way message. There is a group of marketers (Seth Godin comes immediately to mind)who have seen the need to approach marketing as a conversation for years.

  • http://www.DirectMarketingMBA.com/Blog Susan F. Heywood

    Thanks for sticking up for traditional marketers who “get” social media and for warning those who don’t about the need to understand the unique nature of social media engagement before attempting to use it as they would a traditional channel.

    As a “social media type” who also happens to be a (somewhat non-traditional) marketer, I think there is a distinction to be made among marketers.

    Not all marketers see social media as another channel to be used to push a one-way message. There is a group of marketers (Seth Godin comes immediately to mind)who have seen the need to approach marketing as a conversation for years.

  • http://www.DirectMarketingMBA.com/Blog Susan F. Heywood

    Thanks for sticking up for traditional marketers who “get” social media and for warning those who don’t about the need to understand the unique nature of social media engagement before attempting to use it as they would a traditional channel.

    As a “social media type” who also happens to be a (somewhat non-traditional) marketer, I think there is a distinction to be made among marketers.

    Not all marketers see social media as another channel to be used to push a one-way message. There is a group of marketers (Seth Godin comes immediately to mind)who have seen the need to approach marketing as a conversation for years.

  • http://MoneyPowerWisdom.com/ Dr.Mani

    Agree with Jason (comment #1) – and it’s especially hard to argue with a mindset when they have the (short term) numbers to ‘prove’ that ‘social media marketing’ done their way is effective.

    Long term, it may get ineffective, the same way email marketing (a.k.a. spamming) is today – but by then, some fortunes will have been made, the slash-and-burners will have moved on to the next Big Thing… and purists will sit back, scratch their heads, and wonder what they missed

    (I know I did with regard to email relationship building… those hard-earned trusting interactions are losing value fast because email delivery rates have plummeted across the board! :-(

    All success
    Dr.Mani

  • http://MoneyPowerWisdom.com/ Dr.Mani

    Agree with Jason (comment #1) – and it’s especially hard to argue with a mindset when they have the (short term) numbers to ‘prove’ that ‘social media marketing’ done their way is effective.

    Long term, it may get ineffective, the same way email marketing (a.k.a. spamming) is today – but by then, some fortunes will have been made, the slash-and-burners will have moved on to the next Big Thing… and purists will sit back, scratch their heads, and wonder what they missed

    (I know I did with regard to email relationship building… those hard-earned trusting interactions are losing value fast because email delivery rates have plummeted across the board! :-(

    All success
    Dr.Mani

  • http://MoneyPowerWisdom.com/ Dr.Mani

    Agree with Jason (comment #1) – and it’s especially hard to argue with a mindset when they have the (short term) numbers to ‘prove’ that ‘social media marketing’ done their way is effective.

    Long term, it may get ineffective, the same way email marketing (a.k.a. spamming) is today – but by then, some fortunes will have been made, the slash-and-burners will have moved on to the next Big Thing… and purists will sit back, scratch their heads, and wonder what they missed

    (I know I did with regard to email relationship building… those hard-earned trusting interactions are losing value fast because email delivery rates have plummeted across the board! :-(

    All success
    Dr.Mani

  • http://www.ldpodcast.com Whitney

    Great post, Chris. The toolbox is filled with all sort of things, but the art will be the finely tuned application of tools to form something new and remarkable, (Michaelangelo ) versus something more shotgun (for lack of better example, Jackson Pollock- throw it all at the canvas and see what sticks.)
    Communities that form on the web form the niche marketing opportunities, the focus groups, or just Focus that I think most companies would like to find to publicize, test and “broadcast” their goods and services. The trouble traditional marketing gets into is finding a receptive community, and co-opting it rather than exploiting it. That can be a finely tuned dance that isn’t easy to do.

  • http://www.ldpodcast.com Whitney

    Great post, Chris. The toolbox is filled with all sort of things, but the art will be the finely tuned application of tools to form something new and remarkable, (Michaelangelo ) versus something more shotgun (for lack of better example, Jackson Pollock- throw it all at the canvas and see what sticks.)
    Communities that form on the web form the niche marketing opportunities, the focus groups, or just Focus that I think most companies would like to find to publicize, test and “broadcast” their goods and services. The trouble traditional marketing gets into is finding a receptive community, and co-opting it rather than exploiting it. That can be a finely tuned dance that isn’t easy to do.

  • http://www.ldpodcast.com Whitney

    Great post, Chris. The toolbox is filled with all sort of things, but the art will be the finely tuned application of tools to form something new and remarkable, (Michaelangelo ) versus something more shotgun (for lack of better example, Jackson Pollock- throw it all at the canvas and see what sticks.)
    Communities that form on the web form the niche marketing opportunities, the focus groups, or just Focus that I think most companies would like to find to publicize, test and “broadcast” their goods and services. The trouble traditional marketing gets into is finding a receptive community, and co-opting it rather than exploiting it. That can be a finely tuned dance that isn’t easy to do.

  • http://www.theviralgarden.com Mack Collier

    Traditional marketers are still trying to find ways to turn social media tools into direct selling channels. IF they can get away from this ‘me first’ mentality, and begin to use these tools as we do, and for the SAME REASONS as we do, then marketing will be literally turned on its head. I think we are seeing some hints that this might eventually happen with the blogging success that Dell and some others are having. The key will be if they can keep pushing to use these tools to create and strengthen connections, or will they revert into the old mindset of monetization first.

  • http://www.theviralgarden.com Mack Collier

    Traditional marketers are still trying to find ways to turn social media tools into direct selling channels. IF they can get away from this ‘me first’ mentality, and begin to use these tools as we do, and for the SAME REASONS as we do, then marketing will be literally turned on its head. I think we are seeing some hints that this might eventually happen with the blogging success that Dell and some others are having. The key will be if they can keep pushing to use these tools to create and strengthen connections, or will they revert into the old mindset of monetization first.

  • http://www.theviralgarden.com Mack Collier

    Traditional marketers are still trying to find ways to turn social media tools into direct selling channels. IF they can get away from this ‘me first’ mentality, and begin to use these tools as we do, and for the SAME REASONS as we do, then marketing will be literally turned on its head. I think we are seeing some hints that this might eventually happen with the blogging success that Dell and some others are having. The key will be if they can keep pushing to use these tools to create and strengthen connections, or will they revert into the old mindset of monetization first.

  • http://everythingcu.wordpress.com Morriss Partee

    Chris, very interesting post. A lot of this comes down to definitions and attitudes. “Marketing” in its pure sense, means bringing together a company with those who want its products or services. Marketing became a wide-spread phenomenon throughout the late ’80 and 90s, as advertising was diminishing and becoming less effective. But in many cases, the word “marketing” was hijacked by advertising-type people, and we got the ugly phrase “marketing at”. This is very similar to the way “business development” replaced “sales” for most companies, and for most people, the two are now synonymous.

    All this goes back to the amazing prescience of Cluetrain and “markets are conversations.”

  • http://everythingcu.wordpress.com Morriss Partee

    Chris, very interesting post. A lot of this comes down to definitions and attitudes. “Marketing” in its pure sense, means bringing together a company with those who want its products or services. Marketing became a wide-spread phenomenon throughout the late ’80 and 90s, as advertising was diminishing and becoming less effective. But in many cases, the word “marketing” was hijacked by advertising-type people, and we got the ugly phrase “marketing at”. This is very similar to the way “business development” replaced “sales” for most companies, and for most people, the two are now synonymous.

    All this goes back to the amazing prescience of Cluetrain and “markets are conversations.”

  • http://everythingcu.wordpress.com Morriss Partee

    Chris, very interesting post. A lot of this comes down to definitions and attitudes. “Marketing” in its pure sense, means bringing together a company with those who want its products or services. Marketing became a wide-spread phenomenon throughout the late ’80 and 90s, as advertising was diminishing and becoming less effective. But in many cases, the word “marketing” was hijacked by advertising-type people, and we got the ugly phrase “marketing at”. This is very similar to the way “business development” replaced “sales” for most companies, and for most people, the two are now synonymous.

    All this goes back to the amazing prescience of Cluetrain and “markets are conversations.”

  • http://www.providentpartners.net/blog Albert Maruggi

    Here’s the rub, marketers answer to managers and boards, etc. They like graphs, no not just social media graphs that shows influence, links, brand extension, but graphs that tie to revenue or the potential for revenue.

    So, the issue as I see it is two-fold 1) how can we graphically translate, “the conversation” to “The bottom line” and 2) how can the corporate institutions build a process to listen and react to the social networks in which they participate.

    The result of that combination will be better products that have a built in market, less selling, and increasing attraction to the brand.

    The problem is it requires a leap of faith for many and the total number of customers are too low at this point to be taken as anything more than a great experiment.

    Some programs, like the Dell outlet on Twitter you can have a good metric trail; the numbers however, are small comparatively to other marketing tactics. Todd Defren has a similar post on Twitter as a potential selling model. http://tinyurl.com/2dudzy

    Also greater detail on social graph from Jeremiah Owyang here http://tinyurl.com/25kgus

  • http://www.providentpartners.net/blog Albert Maruggi

    Here’s the rub, marketers answer to managers and boards, etc. They like graphs, no not just social media graphs that shows influence, links, brand extension, but graphs that tie to revenue or the potential for revenue.

    So, the issue as I see it is two-fold 1) how can we graphically translate, “the conversation” to “The bottom line” and 2) how can the corporate institutions build a process to listen and react to the social networks in which they participate.

    The result of that combination will be better products that have a built in market, less selling, and increasing attraction to the brand.

    The problem is it requires a leap of faith for many and the total number of customers are too low at this point to be taken as anything more than a great experiment.

    Some programs, like the Dell outlet on Twitter you can have a good metric trail; the numbers however, are small comparatively to other marketing tactics. Todd Defren has a similar post on Twitter as a potential selling model. http://tinyurl.com/2dudzy

    Also greater detail on social graph from Jeremiah Owyang here http://tinyurl.com/25kgus

  • http://www.providentpartners.net/blog Albert Maruggi

    Here’s the rub, marketers answer to managers and boards, etc. They like graphs, no not just social media graphs that shows influence, links, brand extension, but graphs that tie to revenue or the potential for revenue.

    So, the issue as I see it is two-fold 1) how can we graphically translate, “the conversation” to “The bottom line” and 2) how can the corporate institutions build a process to listen and react to the social networks in which they participate.

    The result of that combination will be better products that have a built in market, less selling, and increasing attraction to the brand.

    The problem is it requires a leap of faith for many and the total number of customers are too low at this point to be taken as anything more than a great experiment.

    Some programs, like the Dell outlet on Twitter you can have a good metric trail; the numbers however, are small comparatively to other marketing tactics. Todd Defren has a similar post on Twitter as a potential selling model. http://tinyurl.com/2dudzy

    Also greater detail on social graph from Jeremiah Owyang here http://tinyurl.com/25kgus

  • http://lgbusinesssolutions.typepad.com/solutions_to_grow_your_bu/ Lewis Green

    Great post. I do agree that social media isn’t the tools; the tools are blogs, vlogs, podcasts, etc.

    I strongly agree that social media does not belong within marketing. Instead, I believe it belongs in Internal Communications, where the specialists are trained to communicate–internally and externally. Putting it here will cause great consternation within the Marketing Department and PR. But at the end of the day, communications capabilities belong in the hands of communicaters, not message managers.

  • http://lgbusinesssolutions.typepad.com/solutions_to_grow_your_bu/ Lewis Green

    Great post. I do agree that social media isn’t the tools; the tools are blogs, vlogs, podcasts, etc.

    I strongly agree that social media does not belong within marketing. Instead, I believe it belongs in Internal Communications, where the specialists are trained to communicate–internally and externally. Putting it here will cause great consternation within the Marketing Department and PR. But at the end of the day, communications capabilities belong in the hands of communicaters, not message managers.

  • http://lgbusinesssolutions.typepad.com/solutions_to_grow_your_bu/ Lewis Green

    Great post. I do agree that social media isn’t the tools; the tools are blogs, vlogs, podcasts, etc.

    I strongly agree that social media does not belong within marketing. Instead, I believe it belongs in Internal Communications, where the specialists are trained to communicate–internally and externally. Putting it here will cause great consternation within the Marketing Department and PR. But at the end of the day, communications capabilities belong in the hands of communicaters, not message managers.

  • http://lgbusinesssolutions.typepad.com/solutions_to_grow_your_bu/ Lewis Green

    Chris,

    Great post. I do agree that social media isn’t the tools; the tools are blogs, vlogs, podcasts, etc.

    I strongly agree that social media does not belong within marketing. Instead, I believe it belongs in Internal Communications, where the specialists are trained to communicate–internally and externally. Putting it here will cause great consternation within the Marketing Department and PR. But at the end of the day, communications capabilities belong in the hands of communicaters, not message managers.

    Note: I run a marketing and a communications firm. Social Media consulting sits on the communications side.

  • http://lgbusinesssolutions.typepad.com/solutions_to_grow_your_bu/ Lewis Green

    Chris,

    Great post. I do agree that social media isn’t the tools; the tools are blogs, vlogs, podcasts, etc.

    I strongly agree that social media does not belong within marketing. Instead, I believe it belongs in Internal Communications, where the specialists are trained to communicate–internally and externally. Putting it here will cause great consternation within the Marketing Department and PR. But at the end of the day, communications capabilities belong in the hands of communicaters, not message managers.

    Note: I run a marketing and a communications firm. Social Media consulting sits on the communications side.

  • http://lgbusinesssolutions.typepad.com/solutions_to_grow_your_bu/ Lewis Green

    Chris,

    Great post. I do agree that social media isn’t the tools; the tools are blogs, vlogs, podcasts, etc.

    I strongly agree that social media does not belong within marketing. Instead, I believe it belongs in Internal Communications, where the specialists are trained to communicate–internally and externally. Putting it here will cause great consternation within the Marketing Department and PR. But at the end of the day, communications capabilities belong in the hands of communicaters, not message managers.

    Note: I run a marketing and a communications firm. Social Media consulting sits on the communications side.

  • Susan Getgood

    As someone has already pointed out, at its root, marketing is all about sellers and buyers meeting to exchange things of value with each other — originally, goods in a true exchange, now generally products and money :-)

    The rise of mass media and the intermediation model, where sellers no longer spoke directly with buyers, instead speaking through the MEDIA, changed the dynamic and created the “consumer.” Which has to be just about the worst word in our marketing arsenal. No longer people, companies thought of us simply as consumers of their products.

    What social media does is bring marketing back to its roots. Once again we can engage directly with our customers in meaningful ways. The first thing I tell people is to strike the word consumer from their vocabulary. That more than anything else seems to get the mind shift working.

  • http://getgood.typepad,com Susan Getgood

    As someone has already pointed out, at its root, marketing is all about sellers and buyers meeting to exchange things of value with each other — originally, goods in a true exchange, now generally products and money :-)

    The rise of mass media and the intermediation model, where sellers no longer spoke directly with buyers, instead speaking through the MEDIA, changed the dynamic and created the “consumer.” Which has to be just about the worst word in our marketing arsenal. No longer people, companies thought of us simply as consumers of their products.

    What social media does is bring marketing back to its roots. Once again we can engage directly with our customers in meaningful ways. The first thing I tell people is to strike the word consumer from their vocabulary. That more than anything else seems to get the mind shift working.

  • http://www.jenniferjones.com jennifer jones

    Chris, As a marketer for more than two decades, I found this post so succinct and very thoughtful. I have had this “debate” with marketers myself over the last two years but you have stated it very well. Thanks for sharing the thought.

  • http://www.jenniferjones.com jennifer jones

    Chris, As a marketer for more than two decades, I found this post so succinct and very thoughtful. I have had this “debate” with marketers myself over the last two years but you have stated it very well. Thanks for sharing the thought.

  • http://www.jenniferjones.com jennifer jones

    Chris, As a marketer for more than two decades, I found this post so succinct and very thoughtful. I have had this “debate” with marketers myself over the last two years but you have stated it very well. Thanks for sharing the thought.

  • http://www.personalbrandingmag.com Dan Schawbel

    Social media is a channel marketing can use to tell a story.

  • http://www.personalbrandingmag.com Dan Schawbel

    Social media is a channel marketing can use to tell a story.

  • http://www.personalbrandingmag.com Dan Schawbel

    Social media is a channel marketing can use to tell a story.