March 18, 2010 53 Comments

Oprah Needs More Social

Derrick Ashong from Oprah Radio I was interviewed by Derrick Ashong from Oprah Radio, part of the Oprah Winfrey Network. He was smart, personable, fast-moving, and definitely a great person for this space. The experience left me thinking about how FastCompany magazine said that Ashton Kutcher is the new one to watch on the salvation of media and entertainment. To me, the potential savior list looks a bit different:

* Oprah
* Jon Stewart
* Conan (especially if he doesn’t go to Fox)
* Rick Sanchez from CNN (from the news perspective)

To me, the thing they’re all missing is a deeper integration to social media tools for two-way conversations, for a deeper sense of loyalty and connectedness. Jimmy Fallon does that stuff reasonably well, but then, his show isn’t all that interesting to me. He’s got the social thing figured out a bit better, but the payload isn’t there.

Derrick Ashong, the guy who interviewed me from Oprah Radio made a good moving coming out to South by Southwest, because he showed, in that gesture, that he knew where the stories were, that he could get information from the ground-level stuff that we all uncover, and that he was there to learn as much as he was there to pluck stories from the air.

I think what’s next for media and entertainment will be a hybrid, not a fast shift away. But I think it will also be gatekeeper-free.

What say you?

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  • http://website-in-a-weekend.net/ Dave Doolin

    This is all a bit of art. It would make sense to me that professional entertainers would master these tools much more rapidly than Joe or Jane Blow. Or me.

    So I've always been a little surprised at those who treat it with contempt. I can understand choosing not to use it, but deprecating makes no sense to me.

  • http://twittercism.com Sheamus

    So, only Americans can save media and entertainment? Isn't the internet and social media kinda global? ;)

    Oprah aside, I like your list, but Kutcher is miles ahead of any of these other guys. Stewart could be huge on social media, but he doesn't appear to have any interest whatsoever.

    My gut feeling is the 'saviour' won't be any one person and it won't be anyone who is famous in the offline world right now. It'll be somebody created from social media that becomes an entertainment star. Kinda like Neo from The Matrix, but with less wooden delivery. :)

  • Jason_mKey

    Somebody who is big in old media (television in this example) needs to step up and really hit it hard with the new media. Fallon is doing great. Others will follow and do similar.

    Within the next couple years there will be a gradual shift from old to new. It's already happening, except it's so small right now that nobody is really seeing it. Watch, it's going to happen on a larger scale and at a faster rate gradually.

  • remarkablogger

    I just checked Oprah's twitter stream (last I saw it she busted out that stupid tweet about somebody get her a sandwich).

    She's not doing too bad. There are @ replies in there and more than just a scant few tweets.

    http://twitter.com/oprah

  • http://twitter.com/Iconic88 Iconic88

    Great post Chris and congrats with your interview.

    I agree with your assessment Chris. Who you've also ranked there is a list of people who are regularly broadcasted into peoples homes who are well-known brands unto themselves.

    The non-Americans to look out for, I would also include;
    - Zane Lowe
    - Bono
    - Jamie Oliver

    You're right, and the way I see it is like this. It's like a piano. We all see the keys on a piano, however, it's how we play the keys to create the music that resonates with us, is what differentiates the signal and frequency from the noise.

    WIIFM [whats in it for me] is not as strong as WRWM [whats resonates with me] is in ;-)

    Best.

  • http://www.dogwalkblog.com/ Rufus Dogg

    I think the big issue with celebrities right now is when they join the social media space, they are flooded with direct, personal connections (or what people feel should be direct, personal connections) and expectations that there be a 1:1. That is how we all sold this social media space. The math doesn't work and fans don't like being “processed” so it is easier for these guys to not do it.. or do it superficially. @trent_reznor @mileycyrus and a few others all turned into disasters because they used twitter like they were “supposed to.”

    If I tweet out, I reach 3,000 people. If they all have 3 friends, my max reach is 9,000. Even you would only reach 300,000. Celebrities attract MILLIONS all at the same time. Celebrities need to find a way to scale their personas without having to scale themselves. And so far, fans aren't letting them.

    I agree with @Sheamus that the “savior” will come from the social media space.. eventually.. when SM is taken seriously. It only took television about 50 years to be seen as on par with movies, so we have a way to go… (BTW, what is Derrick Ashong's twitter account? hmmm…)

  • http://StanDubin.com standubin

    Celebrities as saviors in the media space (or any space) has a tinny ring to me. Older media forms are eroding and their pre-occupation with celebs, often the wrong ones, didn't and won't save them. New media saviors emerge daily and give us real help, real entertainment and most of the time don't need to be admired.

  • David Siteman Garland

    Here are my thoughts.

    So I have a show both on TV and online. It is probably 1/1000000000000000×100 the size of Oprah's (but growing) and designed for entrepreneurs and marketers.

    When I started it in 2008, I didn't have much money. Just enough for production. Zero for marketing. Literally zero.

    Being a social native, I went to the web to build the community (formally known as the audience).

    And I didn't do anything special. I was just human. And asked questions. And (ready for this one) listened to people as to what they wanted to see (for example an interview with Chris Brogan) vs what they didn't want to see (example an interview with a cat).

    The point here is not random bragging, but to highlight the incredible opportunity these bigger media brands have if they act smaller and human.

    And really anyone can do it. We had the execs shaking their heads figuring out how I was getting people to watch a show with out spending zillions on advertising. It wasn't rocket science but a whole heck of a lot of fun and focus on relationships.

    Still a lot to learn….

  • http://brian23.com Brian

    I feel where you're coming from on this – yes, if Oprah threw her brand full-bore into developing things in social, it would certainly result in innovation and adoption. I guess I am just saying what possible reason would she have to do so?

    Ashton is the one to watch because he enjoys the space and is in a position where innovation within it can build his company a foundation as the industry leader.

    Oprah already has a foundation as Queen of the Planet.

    Conan (and I'm assuming he goes to Fox) and Jon Stewart are largely the same case – they are already near the peak of what they do – social for them would be an add-on enhancement to their core. While their teams are certainly capable, they have no reason to become the social-based savior. (Not counting Sanchez for various reasons, but news is really a different monkey than entertainment.)

  • http://mindadventure.com/ rob

    Deliberately breaking away from the old ways of doing things is not easy for those of us that have been around for a while. You can help us understand the new community philosophy, Chris. Real happiness is a result of feeling though you are part of all of it and making a difference with helping things to be better.

  • audioconnell

    You lost me as soon as you said Rick Sanchez and savior in the same context.

    While I get the enormity of the platform from which he uses social media, the man himself will some how, in some way, blow himself up career-wise (not in a good way) and take some social media credibility with him.

    He's not someone I would trust to do business with or hold my hopes up for.

    I'd advise you find another horse in this race.

    Best always,
    - Peter

  • http://www.Trainwithshane.com/ Deborah Shane

    The way we use and benefit from the “social experience” changes as fast as people who SEE where things are moving and move there. Creative, innovative ways to enhance the social experience is evident in all the people you mentioned, but that “show face” part is going to be more and more important moving forward. PEEPS want OPS to MEET PEEPS. Online is where connections are made Offline is where they forge and accelerate. BTW, I am also a Rick Sanchez fan, having grown up in Miami , working in media too (radio) where he started on WSVN Fox TV. He was innovative and more personal back then in HOW he presented stories, angles and people. Look at him now! Thanks Chris for the conversation.

  • skipbensley

    Oprah has unbelievable reach and is very impactful. Not sure she even needs to increase it via social. She has her massive audience, magazines, and book lists, She's practically the 5th network already and will be as her plans go forward. People strive to get on her radar for a mere mention can almost make you an overnight success. Ask Dr Phil, or that short cooking woman whos name escapes me. (Rachel Rae?) They appeared, had a great show, and bam, now have their own syndicated show. I think Oprah gets the connectedness part of the equation she just has not utilized it completely yet. Maybe that will be part of Oprah 2.0 when she launches her station. Maybe thats why they were at #SXSW?

    I am not certain there will not need be a gatekeeper, Old school people in TV want to control the message, sell advertising, sell advertising, sell advertising. To not have a gate keeper would “not be in their best interest”. I think Comcast is trying to free up band with to make the cable experience more interactive. We will see how that
    goes.

  • http://twitter.com/mckra1g mckra1g

    I think your gatekeeper concept is key. Over the past 20 years, the line between celebrity, pseudo-celebrity and “regular people” has blurred to the point where it is indistinguishable.

    There is an expectation of accessibility and accountability that didn't exist before. I see celebrities to truly know how to leverage and maximize their brand as succeeding in the new space.

    Essential to this transformation is the understanding of your brand, how it translates across media and how to foster buy-in from the fans you hope to attract. Once you have those elements in place, one can truly flex the “muscle” that power represents.

    Great stuff. Thanks for the springboard. Best, M.

  • http://www.brandtailers.com Cheril Hendry

    Honestly, all I can think about is that your new camera takes awesome pics. That shot of Derrick is so rich!

  • http://fabricecalando.ca/ Fabrice Calando

    Hey Chris!
    Cool post! It’s really interesting to me as I just switched from the advertising to the media industry. Right now a lot of that industry is based on publication rights and so not anyone can publish what they want, where they want…I personally think the push will come from younger, up and coming celebrities – the ones that are not part of that system yet and can change it, much like younger generations are changing the workforce.

    Also, like some other readers have pointed out, many of the established celebrities have millions of followers. If you're new to this “deeper integration to social media tools for two-way conversations” it can be embarrassing and frightening to learn the ropes in front of millions of people…no publicists to help you there.

    That being said, there are many celebrities that do want to be more active and are more active (here in Canada anyway) and the industry does want to let them, but it's a big industry with a lot of different interest so things can take time, unless I have my way :)

    Does this make sense?

  • http://www.dogwalkblog.com/ Rufus Dogg

    @standubin it may have a tinny ring to you, but you would be in the minority judging from the recent Tiger Woods thing. Even topics like Rielle Hunter got a public smack down from none other than Contessa Brewer when my editor voiced an opinion that the story was salacious and non-news. For better or worse, America is FASCINATED with celebrity, almost like media crack. Sad, but true.

  • http://www.ivanwalsh.com Ivan Walsh

    Your recent video on using split-screens in Skype vids was one of the best. dave's got a great site over there, folks!

  • David Siteman Garland

    Thanks Ivan. I'm cooking something up delicious today. Stay tuned :)

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  • http://www.collinharbour.com/ Collin Harbour

    Not sure why it would matter if Conan is on Fox or not if he has the credentials to be a social media savior. Seems Fox might be a bigger platform than CNN, but that's just a side observation. If social meda is the way to go, all who want to survive will naturally head in that direction and provide the 2 way communications we all so desperately desire these days.

  • http://pmerrill.com/ paulmerrill

    You are totally right that if Conan joined Fox he would be shooting himself in the foot. They are way too politically slanted.

  • kristinhall

    I'm in complete agreement with you – the term “savior” is a bit lost on me when used in conjunction with media and entertainment. New “champions” are emerging daily, with no celebrity objective but rather pushing the big share.

  • http://arneltanyag.typepad.com/arnels-blog/ Arnel Tanyag

    Chris, I agree it needs to be hybrid. I believe Media and Entertainment needs to hire you and your company to help them execute versus having good intentions.

  • http://www.quired.com/ Paul Duplantis

    Great article once again Chris. Thanks for sharing.

  • http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

    He's had the mainstream numbers. I'm curious whether he could do MORE with the format if he stayed web-only.

  • http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

    Thanks. I think it's a pretty neat rig. : )

  • http://www.vnrao.net/ Submit Articles VNRao

    The non-Americans to look out for, I would also include;
    - Zane Lowe
    - Bono
    - Jamie Oliver

  • http://yorkstreetproperties.com/ Lance Puig

    I agree about Oprah as your #1 choice to bring salvation. She has been doing so in the last several years in the traditional media front. I believe she will do so too in the social media front.

  • greeblemonkey

    While I agree that Oprah either needs to get in or out – her weird tweets ring untrue… and Twitter is not for everyone so if it isn't for her, cool. But as a media mogul, she would be/is smart to hire people who are savvy such as Derrick and let them extend her brand and let it be real.

  • annawoods04

    Well I've been thinking on this for years about Oprah for the first time about exactly these issues after Jenny McCarthy was on her show. Well, whatever becomes popular lands on Oprah’s show. Soccer moms can flood Twitter with new accounts, it will not change a thing for me (or most people) in the end. But I am sure Ashton will win the race with this!

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  • http://stevegarfield.com stevegarfield

    I'm working in this area and going to talk about it at #140conf NYC with Gavin Purcell from Late Night with Jimmy Fallon and Rick Borutta from The CBS Morning Show Backstage Live.

  • http://www.denisbhancock.com/ Denis

    I have a slightly different perspective on this.

    Social media, in many people's minds, has become synonymous with “two way conversations” – as you point towards here in order to drive a “deeper sense of loyalty and connectedness.” I believe part of the reason is the people that dominate the conversation about social media primarily like to look at it, think about it, and use it that way. In short (and vastly oversimplifying), they “live” social media – and think others should, or want to, do the same.

    I believe there are many, many people – particularly in relation to following celebrities and brands – aren't particularly interested in “conversations”. Sure, they'd love to personally tweet back and forth with Oprah… but millions of people can't do that at the same time for obvious reasons. So given the choice between just seeing “broadcasts” from Oprah (or whoever) and a series of @replies and conversations directed at a couple of people, they'd choose the former… even if the latter looks more “engaging.”

    What led me to start looking deeper at this – basically social media as a broadcasting platform – was a lot of conversations with people with “normal” jobs that put serious constraints on their time. I'm talking Doctors, lawyers, teachers, mid-level executives, landscapers, and a variety of others who – for various reasons (many good, some bad) feel they can't be engaged throughout the day. A stunningly high percentage seemed to find the conversational element, and sifting through it all, very annoying.

    The basic point is that I tend to get very different perspectives from people who “live” on social media much of the day, and those that pick and choose relatively small, infrequent blocks of time to do so. Most of the advice I see around the “right” way to use social media tends to be focused on what the former group wants, and in the process I have a sense that what the latter group wants is often neglected. In many cases, broadcast messages delivered in a new way is what works for them.

    @SportsGuy33 is an interesting example on this front. He's developed an extraordinary brand online, integrating a web page, live chats, twitter, podcasts, and the like. If you look at his Twitter page, he has almost 1.2 million followers, and follows a mere 33 people. The vast majority of his tweets are broadcasts tied to his columns (or podcasts), links he likes, etc. I know a lot of people that love this – and would be annoyed if he became more “engaging” (outside of his live chats) by responding to (say) all the @replies sent his way.

    So it's a balancing act – and in some cases “just” broadcasting might be the right way to go.

  • mrmcq

    Saviors? Who wants or needs saviors. If social media will truly become a business tool, it's going to have be become deeper, and less fluffy.

    But that's just me. I realize fluff sells, but not in my business. We don't sell fluff.

  • http://www.computerserviceuk.com/ Computer Repair Sheffield

    Social network is very essential for every one…because I really don't think that there exist any one who can live without it.There is a great influence of it on our life style.One may wish or hate they are related to social network by either means.

  • SplinteredMind

    I agree with you that @aplusk isn’t the likely savior of media since his appeal is faddish (at least for the moment ;), and I can see how Jon Stewart & Oprah can be very helpful in this space, but I’m not following you on Conan O’Brien. How does NOT going to Fox make him more relevant? I’d love to know more of your reasoning behind that comment. It leaves too much to speculation.

  • SplinteredMind

    OK, I see what you mean now… Thanks for clarifying.

  • http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

    He has more flexibility if he stays off-tv. He can do more.

  • http://twitter.com/vibraman Maury Brooks

    “[whats resonates with me]” YES Iconic88. I think your piano analogy. The magic starts with following the music inside so one can connect with and learn to guide the outer music.

  • http://www.reachpersonalbranding.com williamarruda

    Hello Chris,

    You are right. Oprah is one of the world's strongest brands, but she risks losing her edge if she doesn't engage in more two-way conversations. Effective personal branding requires being connected to members of your brand community.

    Best.
    William
    http://www.personalbranding.tv

  • http://twitter.com/muchiri Muchiri Nyaggah

    I completely agree. :)

  • annejaa

    Well that's right!Oprah is the only website that offers people all the services and advices on your health, beauty,cooking and recipes,money,decorating and many more.With the helps of social media Oprah allows us to discover, connect, and engage with new people of interest.
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  • http://www.elizabethjazz.com/ elizabeth!

    Derrick is a friend of mine and the real deal. He's always interested in finding the story behind the story. Glad he interviewed you, Chris!

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    Social network is very essential for every one…because I really don't think that there exist any one who can live without it.There is a great influence of it on our life style.One may wish or hate they are related to social network by either means.

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