I was part of the Hanes Comfort Crew this past week at Walt Disney World in Orlando, Florida (more about my Disney experience later). Basically, they wanted to show off their new lines of garments and underwear, but mostly they wanted to understand a bit more about how social media and moms/parents who use it will help influence the experience of buying more product. It’s an important game for Hanes to win. Over 85% of households in the US have Hanes products in them (the exact number eludes me, but who cares), so to grow is a tricky challenge.

How Do You Work With the Influencers?

But more so, they want to know how to build relationships through some of the great folks I got to meet like Erika Lehmann, Lori Falcon, Vera Sweeney, and more. What does the new world of advertising at a distance look and feel like? How do each of us find the right lever to help Hanes with their goals, while feeling that we’re doing something for our community?

(Quick note: the “we” and “us” in this is more my work over at Dadomatic, not here at [chrisbrogan.com].)

What’s the return on these efforts? How do you move more socks and underpants and the like?

Cause Marketing is Solid

One thing I loved: Hanes is working hard at cause marketing. They did a great project with Mark Horvath of Invisible People, not to mention that they’re a key sponsor of the Susan G. Komen foundation. And they’ve got some great plans for 2010 in that aspect. That, I believe, helps a brand: showing that they’re working with causes.

But What of Influencers?

It’s a tricky business on all sides. Large brands (not just Hanes; I’m using them as the storytelling element) are seeking relationships with people who have an audience the way publishers sought to build relationships with magazine readers and TV viewers, etc, only the way we interact as bloggers and media makers is much more different than the way shows were produced, and the lines were far more distinct between editorial and advertising. It’s a tricky situation on all sides with regards to disclosure (though I feel that disclosure is probably simpler than we make it).

And audiences aren’t the same as communities. I’ve worked long and hard at [chrisbrogan.com] to make this a community. I can’t and won’t treat you like an audience. My friends in the Hanes Comfort Crew feel similarly. Daddy Brad from DadLabs knows that his community trusts him with their time and attention. He won’t sell out for camouflage boxer briefs.

It’s an interesting time. Companies are saying, “We’re going to invest in this social media stuff, but we have to see a return.” On our side, on the media making side, you and I are going to have to find how we can ethically, seamlessly, and with value to all parties tell stories that will help all sides of the triangle.

What say you?

Relationships Help Sell

It doesn’t hurt that the product is really good, but what made them come to mind was all the times we’ve chatted on Twitter, and/or seeing their social media conversations unfurl on Facebook and other platforms. They’re friendly. They’re part of the story. They’re here.

It’s not enough, obviously. Being around and chatting with me on Twitter doesn’t help if your product stinks. But here’s where it helped: when I realized that I was almost out of soap, they were top of mind.

How Do You Stay There?

I think this is the meat of most marketing. How do you stay top of mind with your customer? Let’s stick with soap. I’ll presume you use it daily (or mostly daily), but it’s not something that you think about.

In the old days, advertisers kept a brand top of mind by repeatedly pushing ads into our vision. Axe spends tons and tons convincing me that their products will make women go wild if I use them. Dove tells you that you’ll be very beautiful if you use them. Soap, of all products, is well known for working hard on staying top of mind. Remember the “soap” in “soap operas?”

To stay top of mind in the modern space, I think you have to be there. You have to be one of us. At least part of it is that. I can’t see Ford throwing away their campaigns and just count on Scott Monty to build relationships (though he’s definitely wearing the Ford colors in a powerful way). But it has to be both.

The Difference Might Be the “Both”

If you’re Glynne Soaps, you can’t pay for full spread magazine ads and soap operas. You can spend time on social platforms meeting people, talking to them about their stuff (and not just soap). Maybe you don’t pick up the ad campaign for a while, but that would be at an inflection point.

If you’re big, you do both. Ads alone don’t cut it. If you’re Pepsi, you maybe do the campaign, but you also put the humans in the game (like Bonin Bough and team).

It depends on the product, I believe. There are “commodity” transactions where I don’t care. But the other thing is, we all have different opinions on what we care about or don’t. For instance, I don’t really care who changes the oil in my car, but because of my conversations with Sullivan Tire on Twitter, that’s where I’ll probably go because they’re top of mind.

What Can We Do?

I think it’s a choice. I think that if you’re a bigger brand, you have more to think about. If you’re a smaller brand, this almost feels like a “must” at this point, trying out social media conversation channels. You might not get the mix right. You might have to experiment until you find what gets people to respond and take action in a relationship-minded way. But without starting to experiment, you won’t find it.

Will soap companies that make relationships on Twitter clean up? I’ve got a hunch they’ll do better than not. But is it all just a matter of working us up into a good lather? I don’t think so.

Start by observing other brands in other verticals and how they’re getting it done. Then experiment. Try making relationships before trying to sell. And be ready to apologize. You will likely make mistakes. But I think there’s some gold in this, done right.

Want some people to observe? On Twitter, check out:

@Glynnesoaps
@RSHotel
@SullivanTire

And maybe you. Are you a smaller brand building relationships one at a time? Brag it up in the Twitter feed.

But we tend to forget that following isn’t touch.

And in this case, “touch” means a connection of our presence to theirs such that the other person knows that you’re still paying attention, that they matter, and that there’s still a tie there. It’s the equivalent of stopping by for a quick cup of coffee, or even just sending a hand-written note (but that’s a matter for another post).

I see you, but if I don’t reach out and touch you such that we have a brief interaction of some kind, then I might be in jeopardy of becoming a ghost in your world.

The problem, as is the curse threaded into the opportunity of this new world, is scale. It’s reasonably easy to maintain digital touch with a hundred or so people. It is not easy to do so with thousands and thousands. The solution? Not entirely sure. My own personal method is to do as much as I can daily to reach out to a few dozen people each day and make sure they know I’m still paying attention.

How are you handling it? Do you find yourself losing some threads here and there? Which of your online tools are helping or hindering the experience?

My favorite part is when Brad Pitt and Edward Norton start shifting from just fighting into putting together a nationwide (international?) presence. Wherever you see a black eye or a missing tooth, it’s someone involved with Fight Club, and they all treat each other a little more special than they do the general public, because they’re in something together. It’s a movement of sorts, and that’s what author Chuck Palahniuk was exploring at some parts: how group activities for men have changed (evaporated!) in more recent years.

Here’s the thing: in some ways, what we’ve got going with social media feels like that secret club. It feels like we’re part of something.

The guy in the picture is Steve Wright, VP of marketing (or something like that) up at Jay Peak Resort in Vermont. When he caught some of my tweets that I was in the area, he dropped me a line and said I should swing by for a ride on their tram, and a little lunch.

Steve was so friendly, and so kind, and the ride in the tram (up 4000-ish feet into the heavy clouds hugging the mountain) was a blast. Lunch was very kid-friendly (important to parents on the road), and it was just a fun, unplanned adventure.

The Secret Fight Club

Basketball professional and businessman Shaquille O’Neal ( @the_real_shaq on Twitter) tweeted this message out famously many months back: “To all twitterers , if u c me n public come say hi, we r not the same we r from twitteronia, we connect.” Other celebrities like MC Hammer are so real that when you finally meet and spend time with them (I’ve hung out briefly at TechCrunch40 and also at CES in Vegas), they’re just as human as anyone else.

Podcasters and bloggers regularly reach out and do great things for each other. They share expenses to attend conferences. My friend, Zane Aveton famously tweeted her way into a ride and lodging to attend SXSW this past March.

This is really astounding, if you think about it, the amount of good will that we pass around in this space. And it’s not relegated to “big names,” whatever that means any more. It’s everyone. People DO things for each other in this space. They give first and give often.

(That last part is the secret sauce: fail to give and you’ll find yourself in a karmic imbalance that usually corrects itself quite obviously.)

I, for one, am always excited about it. I love contributing in my own special ways to the secret fight club. I love giving to causes, helping raise for other causes, and finding ways to get more and more people into jobs that build this space up.

Are You Part of the Secret Fight Club?

Think about it. Are you giving to the secret fight club? Are you building small powerful networks? Are you helping others find work, or sharing whatever your professional cool offering is? Are you the Adam Wallace or Brian Simpson of your organization, offering a plate of free bacon at the bar?

It’s SO easy, so rewarding, and a hell of a lot of fun. Join in.

What’s your contribution?

The Secret Bonus Round

(I added this in after the first push of the post, so folks who only get one RSS copy might not even SEE this.)

What if YOU started something that identifies you as part of the SFC? What if YOU figured out a way to pass around the symbol, such that others knew you were contributing? Maybe it doesn’t have to be as explicit, but then again, wouldn’t a secret signal, sign, symbol, whatever, be cool?

Blog some ideas, and let’s pass this “secretfightclub” tag and idea around a bit. Cool?

What I want to talk about is what this means in the sense of online relationships, in business development, in relationship management.

Mick Galuski

By visiting comic stores from time to time, I stay attached to my sense of wonder, my appreciation of good line art, my taste for the fantastical. By visiting Mick’s store, I’ve built a relationship with Mick. We talk when I come in. He tweets out new releases that might appeal to me. I share the occasional business-related idea with Mick. I’ve never met people who are interested in comics that aren’t also bright, visionary, and forward-thinking. Because of this, I’m always appreciative of the chance to keep my finger on the pulse of the comic book industry. I do that through Mick’s store, and through reading a few publications.

Stadium Comics

A week or two ago, I saw a really cool Batman action figure in a store. I’d never seen it before, but it was evidently related to JSA: The Liberty Files. I sent a Twitpic out into the ether of Twitter, just saying that I was in love with the statue. I think it’s the goggles, and the steampunk-like vision of Batman that excited me.

Imagine my surprise when the guys from Stadium Comics in Brampton, Ontario (Canada) sent me a message offering to send me one. These guys owe me nothing. They didn’t expect any kind of write-up. Heck, they don’t even have a website for me to point you to ( only a Facebook profile), so they couldn’t have done it for the hopeful publicity.

Maybe, just maybe, the guys were just nice, and thrilled that they could support a Batman lover like me. However, you know what? When I talk about Batman in a presentation (as you know I will), this story will come up. (Info that I found on the web about Stadium – Stadium Comics & Sportscards / 499 Main Street South / Brampton, ON L6Y1N7 / Phone: (905) 451-3751.)

Dave Dorman

Somehow, in all this Batman-based discussion, I also learned that famous Batman artist Dave Dorman was following me on Twitter. (I learned this from his wife, Denise Dorman, who’s also there.) Amongst other things, Dave has quite a killer collection of Batman art and I’m looking forward to visiting the next time I’m in Chicago (they’re a little ways away in Geneva). Score another for the Batman thing.

DC Comics and Zemoga

A few weeks ago, Sven Larsen and DJ Edgerton met me outside 1700 Broadway, the headquarters of DC Comics. If you think I’m connected in social media circles, Sven is the me+20 of the comics world. Sven knows everyone in comics, it seems. We were in the hallway of DC, and we walked by former Marvel editor in chief, Bob Harras, and he just says, “Hey, Sven,” like they’d had coffee the day before. Everyone there knew Sven. So, in turn, I got a great visit.

Sven and DJ work at Zemoga, a really cool interactive agency, with offices in NY and Bogota, Colombia. They’ve got a great agency with all kinds of really cool stories. The thing is, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t have sat still to hear about it, given the pace of my days. But because Sven was so generous with his time and with the chance to visit DC, and since DJ turned out to be equal parts interesting and fun, I really am glad we got together, and thrilled we hung out.

Here’s one of 13 videos shot during the trip:

Relationship Building and the Web

So if you’ve stuck with me so far, what I’m thinking about is this: we are in an unprecedented time, where our personal lives and our business lives blend. People can share more about themselves through their blogs, through Facebook, through Twitter, and other platforms, such that you can learn more about your prospective business colleagues. For instance, if you meet someone during an interview, of course they’re going to talk about what a hard worker they are. Is that so? Check his Twitter stream or his Facebook status. Does it line up?

Need that important meeting with Jeff Pulver? Maybe you can talk to him about music. He’s shown you what he likes on Facebook. It’s right there for you to work with.

With tools like Twitter and blogs and Facebook, we can learn more about the people we need to reach. For instance, I once was trying to connect to Len Devanna of EMC. It only took a quick scan of Len’s Twitter stream to realize that he was at a conference, that he needed more coffee, and that if I were to have contacted him at that very moment, it wouldn’t have been a very good phone call.

It’s like magic, really. It’s not new magic, but I swear that it’s something we’re not really looking at with enough rigor. How are you connecting with people? Are you finding ways in through their personal connections to you and your interests?

What’s your take?

How Do You Talk About Yourself?

There’s a huge difference between someone saying that you’re amazing and you saying it about yourself. On the one hand, you sometimes have to explain your credentials. For instance, if I’m asking you to think about what I’m saying, you might want to know my credentials, my qualifications, where I’m from. That’s why blogs have an About page (or at least, that’s the best way to use an about page, in my not nearly humble opinion). But there really is a huge difference between explaining your perspective versus outright bragging about yourself.

No, you can’t really cheat by restating what others have said about you. That’s still basically going to come off as bragging (to me). And this works on the personal scale as well as the company scale.

Which works better? An ad about how awesome you are, or an ad about how awesome your customer is?

Keep the Conversation Focused on Your Customer

In advertising and marketing and all business communications, think about your customer. One way the iPod won the MP3 war was they came up with a way for customers to think easier about the product. It fits 1000 songs. That was wayyyyyyyyy easier to understand than number of megabytes. Thus, the conversation was from the perspective of the customer.

Think of the old cheesy car salesperson. “Can you see yourself in this baby?” There’s a reason they say that. It works. People think from their own perspective.

In talking about yourself, talk instead about others, if you can.

I really loved what John Andrews was doing with his customer of the day blog posts for his little bistro. (Then again, I just read that John’s shop closed down, so does that make it a bad strategy?) John had the perspective that by praising his customers, they’d feel motivated to return. Seems reasonable to me.

Mick Galuski, who I wrote about as asmall town superhero, earns and keeps my business because he customizes his communication to me to make it about my interests. In turn, I praise Mick all the time, and talk with him about business, and give him potential ideas for future efforts.

What This Means to Personal Branding and Self-Promotion

In situations where you’re talking with others, do your best to talk more about them. Learn about them. Ask questions. The smartest people are those who plumb the depths of the other person, and come away knowing them deeply. We seem to fear, as humans, that the other person in a situation won’t hear us. We get worried that we’ll leave a conversation somehow unequally.

Strangely, the most “important” people (in at least the public business sense) I have ever met in my life have all asked me more about myself, and even with me trying hard to turn it around, they were gracious and interesting and still worked hard to know more about me than themselves. People like Vinod Khosla, Seth Godin, Guy Kawasaki, and many more have always started with more questions about me than about themselves.

If that’s how they roll, why wouldn’t you do the same yourself?

It’s certainly something I notice more often when meeting people, or learning more about them on the web. While writing this post, I was distracted twice to do other things, and in one case, I read someone’s about page on their blog and choked on how self-important they seemed (and hey, read mine and call me out if you think I seem stuck-up). The other was a request from someone whose event I once attended, where he spent the first 10 minutes doing a strange “you love me, you really love me” type performance. Great guy. Super smart. Off-putting as all hell to start an event that way.

What do you say?

Facebook Fan Pages and “Friends”

At this point, it’s a bit different for me. I have to accept that from time to time. But it’s a weird feeling. According to Facebook, I can’t possibly know more than 5000 people. (I feel silly writing this. Tons of people have already written this same blog post.) So, the next step is to create a “fan” page.

The fan page acts pretty much the same way as a profile page, except that the owner of said page can actually do a few more things, include mass messaging. So in a weird way, the “punishment” for having so many friends is that Facebook gives me a way to blanket message them. Huh?

The next question this all brings up is “friends.” Ari Herzog was halfway there in comments on Twitter, spawned from an exchange with me and Alexa Scordato, who offered to “unfriend” me so I’d have some room. This was followed by Meg Fowler offering to unfriend, too.

So wait, it goes further. The next action for people with 5000 “friends” is that my real friends all offer to abandon ship, knowing that they can reach me other ways. So what does that tell you about the kinds of friends you capture and maintain on Facebook? At least from this example, it tells me that my friends and I aren’t using it as a real social hub, that we reach each other on other channels (mostly Twitter).

Fan Pages and Facebook Overall

I use Facebook as part of an outpost strategy. This recent experience all started because I was thinking about where I could put notes about fitness and non-chrisbrogan.com material. I thought maybe I’d use Facebook, but then I realized I was already up to 4694 friends. With a cap of 5000 friends, I wouldn’t be able to build a relationship there.

So, I had a quandry. Start a new platform like a Ning site (as Ari Herzog suggested)? No. That’s too much like filling a pond and stocking it while all the fish are jumping and thriving in the big ocean. Start a Tumbler blog for it? Naw, again, just a bit too much work reminding folks to visit. So, I opted for a Fan page.

But what will really come of it? Not entirely sure. Not sure that it’s the right implementation. But I’m trying it out.

If you want to be my (*cough*) fan, or at least connect on Facebook, please go here.

By the way, if you want to read some great blogs about Facebook, there’s Inside Facebook by Justin Smith (suggested to me by Kari Rippertoe), and there’s Why Facebook, by Mari Smith.

What do you make of all this?

Something about the way sales and marketing folks use the web that needs correcting: the whole relationship map.

I’m not sold just because we connected. If I’ve “friended” you on Facebook, that’s not when to pitch me. If I’ve followed you on Twitter, that’s not when to auto-tweet me a direct message about your blog. If I’ve come to your blog, don’t overlay a big fat ad pushing me into your sales funnel.

In relationship terms, I’m reaching out to shake your hand and you’re trying to put your tongue in my mouth.

No thanks.

Photo credit, IMorpheus

Here are some things that are true: people don’t read. And when they pretend to read, they skim. Comprehension and context are at an all time low. We’re snackers, and it’s adding up. Where this hits us the worst is when communications professionals attempt to match their idea of me (and by me, I mean you) with their “target.”

It’s deeper than not reading. Part of it is not caring, because we can’t care. In sales, if you’re trying for a number, you have to scrap and scratch and push hard and do all those volume-based things that will drive a number or you’re on the street.

It’s deeper than not caring, because we don’t have enough hours in the day, so we can’t even find the TIME to care. How can we read and care and do all this other stuff when we’ve got products to sell and deadlines and goals?

It gets worse. Kind of.

Guess what? 2009 is just about here. Economically, the US is in for quite a shake, and all my friends from all over the world (because I do appreciate you being part of this conversation) are also in for a crapload of un-fun. Your customers are cutting back. They aren’t paying. They can’t meet their commitments.

You are in retention mode. Now, if you’ve treated me like a target all this time, do you think I have loyalty or any kind of need to keep on as your customer? If you don’t know anything about me, do you have the handles you’ll need to preserve your relationship with me as a customer?

Build. Relationships. Now.

Learn the tools. Understand how to re-humanize communications. Learn how to scale differently. And put your efforts into relationship mode.

The cost: a cutback on the mass approach.
The reward: deepening of relationships (and potential sustained or augmented sales) with your client base.

Math wise, if the dial is already going down related to things you can’t much control, you’ve just earned a little time to convert to a relationship-based mode.

Or don’t, because I’ll love me a good fire sale on your database.

What do you think?

Photo credit, NickyFern

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• They Will Remember You in the Bust Not the Boom

I found this little gem from Rachel Cornell in the comments to my pirate ship post:

…Here is yet another reason why it’s smart to build relationSHIPS not little relation-dinghies. RelationSHIPS are well designed to withstand troubled waters; dinghies will capsize easily.

Thanks matey for such a great topic,
Rachel

How clever is that? RelationSHIPS versus relation-dinghies.

When she’s not burying treasure in my comments section, Rachel blogs here.

Photo Credit, D’Arcy Norman