Ways to Disrupt a Community

July 20, 2007 · Comments

Kat in the HatAfter four days of the Grasshoppers group on Facebook, I’ve thrown a curveball. I’ve built a Grasshoppers group on the up and coming open-faced social network system, Ning. It’s only been four days, and people are all frustrated. They’re saying, “Why mess with something good?” And yet, at the same time, there’s a swirl of conversation about how Facebook isn’t playing very Web 2.0.

But here’s the thing: another reason why I stirred things up was to point out quickly that the group isn’t made because of facebook. The group is made because people agreed with the idea and they wanted to be part of something. It’s not about the bike, as Lance Armstrong said years ago. It’s about the people.

Humans at Ning

It’s harder to invite people in a big bundle on Ning. I griped about this on Twitter, and Tim Shey (a personal superhero of mine) said I should get in touch with Gina at Ning. One quick email later, and Gina explained within moments of me sending the mail that Ning was working on a new method to import groups / invite lots of folks, and that in the interim, she volunteered one of her staff (!!!) to help me add names 20 at a time, if I so chose.

Huh? Imagine! She’s not just saying, “Them’s the breaks, kid.” She’s offering me human resources to help out.

Web 2.0

Ning uses RSS everywhere. You can add modules really easily, but more interestingly, you can get the info back OUT of the platform and into a reader, at your leisure, however you want to slice it. It’s about bringing the information to where I want it, not walling it in.

Features

Ning offers tons of , including an open API. UPDATE: David from Ning (responsive again!) commented that Ning offers an open API, and he even points us to a great description here.

Facebook Has the Mass

Facebook has the bodies. With all of us writing about it all the time, and with it really being an interesting place to communicate, I’ll grant that. Facebook will trump Ning for their who’s who of engaged Internet-friendly types landing on the platform, not to mention the high school and college crowd piling in there, too. I grant that.

Ning isn’t LinkedIN or Facebook

But neither is the Grasshoppers group a software application. We’re people. I have a hunch. I think I’ll lose some people in these turbulent days. I think lots of the Facebookers who just said yes for no reason won’t come over. However, as 100 people logged into the conference call yesterday (and several dozen more just couldn’t make it due to the time of day), I think we’ve got an engaged group interested in the idea.

Will it blend? I sure hope so.

One last thing: I wouldn’t have even thought much about the software platform being interchangeable were it not for Eric Rice, who’s creating Saijo City as an idea that crosses over whatever platform he wants. You can blame Eric for bending my mind out of shape, and it not being able to return to elasticity (as per Adam Tinkoff’s fortune cookie twitter yesterday).

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  • I agree, Ning is much better suited to a group like Grasshoppers.

    No reason there can't still be a page on Facebook, just so people can find it. I see having a Facebook/MySpace page like being listed in the Yellow Pages - tells people who you are and how to contact you, but you don't necessarily have to conduct all your business there.
  • Hi, Chris. Glad you're enjoying Ning so far!

    One quick comment about our APIs -- they are indeed open. All of the APIs that the "Your Own Social Network" application uses are available for developers to do whatever they want with.

    Diego wrote a good explanation of how all this works at: http://developer.ning.com/2007/07/07/one_small_...

    There is API documentation here: http://docs.ning.com/page/page/show?id=492524:P...

    Best,
    David Sklar
    Software Architect @ Ning
  • I like the story that's developing here.
  • I hate to call you out Chris, but you're being 2 faced or I don't get what you twittered.

    You brag in this post about the Ning folks helping you out by giving you the "import 20", but on your tweet, you rip them as dumb*sses.

    I understand you may have been frustrated at the time, but it does make you look two faced.
  • Hi Rob- I call my best friends dumbasses, too. I should've said "dumbapps." But yes, I Twittered that in frustration at the start of trying something new.

    But they were immediately nice to me when I pointed out what bugged me.

    Gina and David and others from Ning have already contacted me, and I rescind all dumb-ass comments.

    Shall I clarify via Twitter? I will. : )

    Thanks for keeping me honest.
  • I agree that Ning is much better for what we're doing - I'd much rather have updates in my reader than have to remember to check Facebook several times a day.

    I think there's just some confusion about the ultimate goal of the Ning network - it might be helped by a Wall post on the FB page telling everyone that you want to move the bulk of the discussions over to Ning, and encouraging them to go join and chat over there (assuming I'm understanding the goals here correctly...) =)
  • Jeff
    I love ning and have put together some networks there myself. I am trying to get one going for the diabetic community as I try to stay informed of things I do wrong. Like drink myself into oblivion in NYC!
  • I tried to make my group at Facebook, but I started to find that I couldn't follow it and use it... I hated Ning at first, but, to be fair, checked it out again and saw that it worked well. RSS alone and benig able to plop ANYthing into those Text boxes (we have a chat room on infocalypse and also, my new love, ZOHO works there-- although often formatted to big for the colums).

    And if you choose, you don't have to be a Ning member to read and/or subscribe. I'm okay with some stuff being in a walled garden but other stuff, no.

    I'm happy to have a social network of 30. Why? Because size/amount of people isn't what matters to me.
  • I also agree Ning is the place for Grasshoppers. The ability to get the data out is again key with me as well. Because of this, I've created a "Grasshoppers" tag in Google Reader, and can put all the feeds that are important from anywhere in the Grasshoppers network and parse them at once.

    Can't do that with Facebook.
  • I'm brand new to both, will have to learn the ropes before deciding what's better. Appreciate the explanation, though.
  • I think Ning is a better tool for active communities than Facebook; while Facebook is better for keeping in touch with your friends. The diiversity of content you can use easily on Ning is great. But suspect you're right about needing a feeder site like Facebook :-)
  • Aw, thanks for the kind mention, Chris. I recommended you reach out to Gina because she (like you) is a superhero of mine -- her Ning blog is a must-read for anyone wanting to learn how to build community and success around a product -- and as you've seen, she's unbelievably responsive to emails and requests from her customers.
  • Funny, I added Grasshoppers to my groups on Facebook BECAUSE it was Chris Brogan, who I had made friends with over on Twitter and via Jeff Pulver and other places.

    But, I haven't yet joined the Ning group. Why? I'm lazy. It was easy to join on Facebook because I already was there. Joining yet another place involves a little more work.

    I'm tired of joining social networks and it will piss us off more and more as we are forced to join more and more of them.

    From now on I'd rather just stick with Twitter or Facebook. I don't see a good reason to join another network.

    If it were anyone BUT Chris Brogan telling me this I'd probably tell him to go jump in a lake.

    I do feel used, though.
  • Sorry you feel used, Robert. If you do, it means I didn't communicate well.

    Why stray from Facebook? No RSS. A TOS that says they can take without giving. Seems like two good rasons.

    Reasons to stay on Facebook? It's a nice platform. It's smooth, clean, easy to work with, has a big pile of people there.

    Point above all points: Grasshoppers is people. If you're not down because it's not a FB app, it's probably there that I've lost you in the translation.

    I respect your thoughts and opinions.
  • Chris, The problem is burnout. Many people saw this coming. Seems like every other week there's another Social network or SN tool popping up on the scene. And of course EVERYONE has to join the new club. It's come to the point where a lot of us are burned out and are sticking with the ones that work and that we enjoy, whether they have all the tools we want/need or not.

    In fact, you seem to jump the gun a lot. A new network comes out, and bam! you're already finding what's wrong with it. Ya gotta let it grow man. Sometimes the features are on the way.

    Anyway, my point is we're finally crashing. Many of us are going to stick with a few things that work for us. Some will follow the Pied Piper, but others will stay at home.

    Thanks for being the Piper.
  • Gosh, I'm so biting my lip right now.
  • Chris,
    All I can say is THANK YOU for creating the ning group. I like it a lot. I do not like facebook. I'm probably the only one who doesn't. oh well...

    Ning is easy. period.

    Thanks.
  • First let me say as always-Chris I admire your energy and dedication to do good community/social works. For me, I started an A.Connector group on Facebook to tie in to and offer a connection for friends and people of similar social media interests on Facebook. This was in addition to the blog that already existed.

    I can appreciate you wanting to do a non-Facebook presence due to being accessible without having to become a member,etc. So you do a Google Group and and Ning-all good. I agree with Scoble-for me, joining the one Grasshoppers is enough. Not to say it is more righteous to be in the Facebook one, and pooh pooh the lowly GoogleGroup and Ning, just enough for me.

    I don't approve of snobbery, but I don't approve of overkill either. You of course are free to do as many Grasshopper groups in as many forms as you wish.

    I would have guessed that you were hoping to pull in different people at each place than drag your one member ship to all portals?

    Anyhow, keep the good energy and community building coming. Peace!
  • you can ask people to come to your content, or you can bring your content to people. I'm not saying the way FB is playing is the right way, but - they do have your friends neatly aggregated.

    Where are the other places that allow this that are also open?
  • I'm a little disappointed with you Scoble. I understand your point, but "used" is a little much.
  • I think the whole agonizing about switching platforms - Facebook, Ning, Twitter, Pownce, wherever -- is a very short-term problem. It's a matter of time before technologies like RSS and openID will allow social groups to super-distribute themselves and live in many places at once -- so that people can participate in forums, share media, etc. at the destination they prefer. Ning seems to embrace that already with easy exporting and importing of anything that can be distributed via RSS -- and soon a group like Grasshoppers could have little outposts everywhere, from this blog to Facebook to a dozen other places, and people should be able to chime in from any of them.

    It seems like a simple enough problem, and one that will be solved soon. Portable, transportable communities... the next big thing.
  • It's not that there will be a dozen places to check. There will be us. We will make the right choice and it will move us all towards a system where we can be helpful.

    This isn't about the software. It's not about the bike. Change is scary, but come on. We're not set in our ways after a few days. Have you been less helpful because of the shift? I'm going to guess no.

    Because it's about that alone. Now, see if you can't find something on the Grasshoppers group to do. We can keep talking about this, because it's useful. And we can also work on things.
  • yo chris - so i read through all the posts and think Robert Scoble has a point about being battle fatigued - one thought is why can't you keep your legacy group serviced on FB and also cross pollinate with Ning or anything else that resonates with you in time - we don't live in a fixed virtual world - as lauri anderson once said - "What's New has been replaced by what's Next" who knows what the future holds... i just think you alert people to your spreading you wings to Ning or whatever else come down the pike and keep growing and exploring and finding better mouse traps and learning what you need to teach - food for thought geo
  • Here is my analogy: It's like Eating at a Restaurant.

    Facebook is an all you can eat buffet. You get lots of choices and you get dessert. Ning is the place you go when you want to have a really excellent meal with lots of courses in a smaller place where you can talk to people more in depth. There's room for both. I like both. It doesn't have to be one or the other. That's the beauty of it.

    I was all fired-up about Grasshoppers over at Facebook. When I saw that it was being moved, I had an instant of "o shit" but quickly got over it once I saw how totally easy it was to set up and go over at Ning. After 30 seconds at Ning, I knew Chris was so right to do the move.

    I have the attention span of a flea and Ning was TOTALLY painless. Less than one minute of set up, it's just that easy.
  • I joined up on Ning because I already had an account. I really did not want to do it, but I saw that they added badges, and I can dig badges.
  • I love the responsiveness of Gina et al at Ning.

    Also, Facebook is blocked in some places so having access via Ning helps get around that problem.

    It is just another tool. The trick is finding the right tool for a community. I think we can make Ning work.

    Cheers,
    Connie
  • It's funny, that a few of us have seemed to discover Ning at about the same time. I came to it because of the Jet Set Show, and thought it would work for LO-FI. So about a week ago I went public with it and I am amazed that it's working so well. I've been looking for a platform to extend my audience into a community for a while, and I looked long and hard at different message board systems, as well as things like Drupal and Joomla, but nothing had the features that I wanted. Ning had the goods and after I saw what Zadi and Steve had built I knew that that Ning was the Thing. So far my users really seem to love it.
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  • Yesterday's mailing lists are today's RSS feeds are tomorrow's ... The question is, what can you do with these tools? I think we're getting somewhere with the Grasshoppers Network Conference. Although it's live and therefore not convenient for everyone all the time, it's also available in recorded form via several web pages and RSS including iTunes.

    Listen now: http://grasshoppersnetwork.org/latest.htm

    Subscribe via RSS: http://feeds.feedburner.com/GrasshoppersConference

    Keep up with topics:
    http://grasshoppersnetwork.org/topics.php


    Still waiting for the next http://Kiva.org
  • Gaige
    hi nice post, i enjoyed it
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