September 1, 2010 61 Comments

Why Ping Is a Stepping Stone to Social Commerce

I am a huge fan of Om Malik. I just read his post on Apple’s Ping service, and have a difference of opinion. Om points out that it’s great that Apple is finally adding a social layer to their iTunes store. He goes on to mention that it’s about time, because Amazon has done a great job with this, and has enabled social commerce like letting bloggers become affiliates to sell products that Amazon offers (I am an Amazon affiliate, for instance).

But what I might have missed in the post was whether Ping was going to enable me to sell Apple’s wares in some better way, or whether it was going to let me promote other people’s things inside their social platform without being part of the ecosystem.

Said another way: it looks like Ping wants me to tell you which of Apple’s offerings I like without giving me any money for helping them make sales.

I might be wrong. I read it a few times, but I don’t see it.

So, what they’re saying (in my words) is: iTunes 10 lets you help us market our stuff to your friends and to follow artists we sell in our store.

Hey, it’s great that Apple’s putting a social layer on something finally, but as for whether this is social commerce, I’m going with “not so much.”

Social commerce is where there’s a relationship opportunity that benefits all the parties involved. When I share with you that Donald Miller’s book is one of my favorite books of 2010, and you buy a few hundred (as you have), I’m grateful that I’ve connected you with a book I love. I’m grateful that Amazon sends me a buck or two (I think it’s like $1.50) for every book I guide to your hands. And hopefully, when you read it, you’re grateful that you were alerted to such a useful book.

That, to me, is social commerce.

Ping isn’t that, but maybe it’s on the way there? I hope so. I’m glad Om talked about social commerce. It’s yet another reason why GigaOm is one of my top 5 blogs.

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http://enrique-gutierrez.com nrek

Post from @chrisbrogan is pretty much spot on. Apple is a juggernaut of genius marketing tactics. The fact remains, Jobs hasn’t been ethical since the 80′s, but who wants to really hear that? Nobody. “Ooo pretty!” and “OMG! I can like things in iTunes! WIN!” are a lot easier currency to trade than, say, “We want you to give us your input so we can make sales more accurately”. Wonder if they’ll find a way to censor it. $20 says yes.
http://www.sebastienpage.com Sebastien

I’m not sure what the point of the post is. Are you saying that Ping is not social commerce? Or are you saying Ping sucks because it doesn’t compensate people who refer songs (for example) to friends that end up buying said songs?
http://www.danielmclark.com Daniel M. Clark

I haven’t seen any evidence that Apple will be building in social commerce, either. It’s certainly not in the current version of iTunes, even though they gave us the Share on Twitter/Facebook and Copy Link functionality for easy sharing. Their affiliate program seems an afterthought. I’d be very surprised if they put it in iTunes 10.

Ping looks interesting, but I have a feeling it’s going to stagnate unless they can figure out a way to have people use it outside the iTunes window – I suspect most people run it in the background while doing other things, making Ping all but useless.
http://twitter.com/Kyotocutie Richelle T.

Yes, it is nice that Amazon gives you a few bucks for people purchasing things you recommended through their online store. But really, for most of the world, this isn’t how recommendations work. When I’m chatting with friends, or talking to a stranger who happens to be browsing in the same section at the bookstore, I make recommendations all the time without expecting a dime. I do it because I genuinely like the product. It’s great that iTunes is enabling me to do this with people I may not know face-to-face, or may know but never get a chance to browse the music store with. Yes, iTunes is a business and they are going to make money on the recommendations I give without paying me for it. But in a way, recommending a product or song is also in MY best interest because that word of mouth helps that company or band be successful, ensuring more great products/music will be produced for me to enjoy. It’s a “you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours” kind of situation!
http://twitter.com/PXLated PXLated

An Amazon affiliate may work for you Chris but realistically how much does the average person make being an affiliate? I know for me it’s not worth even thinking about. In fact, it paid so little I haven’t even used it for 2-3 years.
http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

That’s not the point. The point of the post isn’t how much. What I’m saying is that Ping can’t be social commerce if you can’t participate in the sale.
http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

Agreed that it’s not always about an exchange. My point is that there’s never a potential for an exchange in that set up.

There are plenty of things we do for free in the world. In this specific use case, Apple profits every time you do something for free.
http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

I’m saying that Ping isn’t necessarily social commerce because it only benefits apple and the artist. Social commerce would also benefit the person making the recommendations.
Anonymous

What’s wrong with you. Beside obviously have a bone to pick with Steve Jobs, lashing out on Ping is so unwarranted.

People with a sense of entitlement, OMG, run, run for your life.
lyneka

I think we should call this something different from social commerce. In walking life my friends don’t make a dime off of me unless it’s for their own personal projects.
lyneka

I think we should call this something different from social commerce. In walking life my friends don’t make a dime off of me unless it’s for their own personal projects.
http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

The definition of commerce: transactions (sales and purchases) having the objective of supplying commodities (goods and services) .

What you’re talking about is recommendations, which are different.
http://twitter.com/HarrisonPainter Harrison Painter

I agree 100%, 2 way street is much better. That said, Apple is very smart in their approach, and know they have a legion of fans that will jump in and not care about the affiliate aspect. Let’s see how this evolves. I see concert ticket sales coming soon, seems like the natural progression.

Maybe a little off-topic, but I also found it interesting that facebook will now have gift cards in Target for gaming. Things are changing very quickly!

Thanks for sharing your opinion on this Chris, and have a wonderful rest of the week!!!
http://twitter.com/ImageFreedom Matthew C. Egan

Hi Chris. You know I’m quite a fan of your work, but here I have to say we strongly divert on this one. Harrison Painter summed it up perfectly, in that Apple’s rabid fans just could give two shits about profiting, they just want to connect. I’d relate this Ping service more to Facebook than to Amazon, and that’s what is so amazing about their effort.

“$1.29 Buy” is the new “Like” Button.

Folks aren’t going to even realize that they’re in there helping make Apple money, but they’ll be drunk on content from their favorite artists, and those artists will be rewarded with higher sales for their efforts. You’ll have fan buy-in, you’ll have artist buy-in, and of course Apple is already on board.

You the blogger, in this case, are not the target audience, and I’d wager Apple is completely fine with that. You have an audience, you can sell Amazon books, but the Farmville nuts with all this excess time and energy, they’re going to fill this sucker with comments and suggestions for their friends to purchase and Apple will be grateful all the way to the bank.

This is the kind of genius Apple is known for. Get us where we live, and right now we live in our little social circles, so why not meet in those circles on Apple’s turf?

Brilliant.
http://twitter.com/ImageFreedom Matthew C. Egan

Feeling like it’s a symantic point based on many of the comments you’re getting. Social Commerce vs. Social… Recommendations? I still have to say it’s commerce, even if there isn’t that exchange for the user, the user is getting content, and access, and research, the exchange for the user just isn’t a financial one.
http://www.tcgeeks.com Shane

Chris,
I get what you are saying here. And yeah, you have a good point. The thing I like to keep in mind with Apple when they introduce what I will call a “disruptor” is that they continually improve upon it or make changes to it. There is a much larger story here to be told and I feel like Ping is being introduced with the bare minimum of features. From a social commerce point of view one has to look at whether this particular platform was or is meant for that. I think eventually it will evolve and could include advertising for example (which is most likely).
Anonymous

I have not made a penny off Mr B but I enjoy realising that he will get a buck and a half from me for all his hard work. So the next time I buy a book I will use this affiliate technique. Seems fair: you provide a service you get a reward.
lyneka

I’m not debating the fairness of the affiliate technique.
lyneka

I guess the part of the term I’m taking issue with is “social.” I don’t know if I believe in this phrase social commerce. The act of communicating is free, and that’s what I consider to be social and social media. If the aim or goal is to sell a product to a following, I file that under marketing/commerce/salesman.
http://www.ladiesshoesworld.com/ Reply me

So, what they’re saying (in my words) is: iTunes 10 lets you help us market our stuff to your friends and to follow artists we sell in our store.
http://www.twitter.com/mdemmick M. Drew Emmick

Ping’s current features strengthen the relationship between the artist and fan, or in other words the seller and buyer. That is traditional commerce not social commerce.

The key ingredient missing is an incentive for fans to participate and share music regularly. This doesn’t have to be monetary. It could be fan recognition among friends, the ability to send a track from a purchased album to a friend, etc. Now that would be social commerce!

Without an incentive, Ping is a glorified review/rating system. Before I am labeled anti-Steve Jobs, I recognize this service could be extremely valuable for artists. I also recognize that Apple may add features in the future that will promote social commerce.
http://www.twitter.com/mdemmick M. Drew Emmick

I consider social commerce to be sales/revenue generated via social networking between consumers (or in this case fans). Otherwise, it’s traditional commerce – artist marketing their music to fans, and giving them an incentive to buy it. Also, the additional content/access is available to fans regardless of a sale occurring. I’m not seeing the exchange.
http://stephenpickering.com StephenPickering

Apple makes great products, fabulous at UI, and the Kings of Marketing, all great things in my mind, but Social is nowhere in their DNA. It’s nowhere in Steve’s DNA. Sharing and working together with outside companies and affiliates is not in their DNA. Social implies a level playing field where all the participants are viewed as equals. That is definitely not Apple’s view of the World. Which is fine. They have a distinct point of view, and they make fabulous products which we all enjoy. They are going to do great for years to come, designing, making, and selling products, but I don’t think Ping is going anywhere, nor is “Social Commerce” going to be a big part of their culture, especially, as you point out, that its laid out here: no affiliate, no interconnectivity with other social networks. Apple is BMW, not Amway.

http://www.twitter.com/mdemmick M. Drew Emmick

I agree with your points 100%. Apple has achieved success through superior products and brilliant marketing campaigns. They are truly the BMW of technology.

http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

agree entirely.
http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

I totally agree. It may or may not be more of a threat to MySpace than anyone else, but even then, not really. MySpace is more for not-yet-established bands more than anyone.
http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

That’s an interesting way to say it. I like that. The $1.29 buy part.
http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

Again, it’s a matter of the two words together.

Social COMMERCE is about tools to help sell.

Social MEDIA is about tools to have two way conversations.
http://www.socialcubix.com/services/facebook-connect Facebook Connect Integration

After buying my crappy iPhone 4 I’ll be staying clear of future Apple products until they’ve worked out the bugs.
http://twitter.com/iconic88 iconic88

Great post Chris.

I agree with you. The issue that many companies like Apple need to address when they’re looking to get into the ‘social commerce’ space is that have to create incentives and reward its users to share. This is why Groupon is the fastest growing company in the world. They have created a biz model where everyone wins.

Apple can only improve, right? ;)
http://www.otoemlak.com/ otoemlak.com

thank you for sharing
http://twitter.com/Abdulk Abdul Karmach

I agree 110% and can’t say it better myself. I’ve always seen Apple as the polar opposite of social. BUT.. this is what makes Apple, Apple, and differentiates it’s products. Otherwise, they’d be putting out the same commodities other computing and consumer electronic giants.

@Drew E I LOVE the analogy of “The BMW of tech” you are SO RIGHT!
http://twitter.com/jyarmis Jonathan L. Yarmis

Chris, I can’t believe you’re saying this. You of all people. “Social commerce would also benefit the person making the recommendations.” And ” Apple profits every time you do something for free.” There are a variety of ways I receive value. One of them is certainly monetary, and an important one. But I also receive all kinds of non-monetary value. Any community is only as good as the value provided by and received from its participants. I’m no Apple fanboy — I own no iPhone (Android), Mac (Windows tablet) or iPad — but I think the adding of Ping brings great value to the participants in the system and if Apple benefits economically from this, well, isn’t that the heart of our system? We should reward “innovation,” and if by bringing greater information content to the music ecosystem, Apple is able to generate economic return on that information, well good for them…and music buyers.

I know you’re not saying you make book recommendations because you stand to profit from being an Amazon affiliate. You make book recommendations because you feel strongly about a product. The fact that you can benefit economically from the transaction is totally incidental. So what we’re really talking about is the economics of the affiliate model, which probably works well when a product’s ASP is above $10 but may well be very different when the ASP is a buck. So Apple doesn’t share its largesse with you. No shocker there. They’ve always been a premium priced product and the fact that this extends to other markets is not surprising.

Now if you want to have the discussion “Apple: good or bad for all of us,” now that’s a fascinating discussion.
http://twitter.com/jyarmis Jonathan L. Yarmis

Chris, I can’t believe you’re saying this. You of all people. “Social commerce would also benefit the person making the recommendations.” And ” Apple profits every time you do something for free.” There are a variety of ways I receive value. One of them is certainly monetary, and an important one. But I also receive all kinds of non-monetary value. Any community is only as good as the value provided by and received from its participants. I’m no Apple fanboy — I own no iPhone (Android), Mac (Windows tablet) or iPad — but I think the adding of Ping brings great value to the participants in the system and if Apple benefits economically from this, well, isn’t that the heart of our system? We should reward “innovation,” and if by bringing greater information content to the music ecosystem, Apple is able to generate economic return on that information, well good for them…and music buyers.

I know you’re not saying you make book recommendations because you stand to profit from being an Amazon affiliate. You make book recommendations because you feel strongly about a product. The fact that you can benefit economically from the transaction is totally incidental. So what we’re really talking about is the economics of the affiliate model, which probably works well when a product’s ASP is above $10 but may well be very different when the ASP is a buck. So Apple doesn’t share its largesse with you. No shocker there. They’ve always been a premium priced product and the fact that this extends to other markets is not surprising.

Now if you want to have the discussion “Apple: good or bad for all of us,” now that’s a fascinating discussion.
http://www.jeremymeyers.com/ Jeremy Meyers

“having people use it outside the iTunes window” is exactly what they DONT want. Apple’s whole strategy is to have a well built, beautiful and closed ecosystem that they control as much of as they possibly can, so users who want something that “just works” can get that experience.
http://www.jeremymeyers.com/ Jeremy Meyers

It would be easy enough to add some social benefit to users by adding a twitter-style ‘followers/following” count to the account page and then calling out the top users. Doesn’t seem like this is the purpose though, its branded specifically ‘invite your friends’
http://www.danielmclark.com Daniel M. Clark

I agree – and that works with the iPhone, the iPod Touch and the iPad. It would never fly on a Mac, and the jury is out on the Apple TV because I don’t think we know yet just how locked down it is (streaming of non-iTunes-purchased content, for example). But I don’t think the same philosophy can work with Ping. If users are forced to use it only in an iTunes window, I suspect a lot of people simply won’t bother with it.

That, and they really missed the mark at launch by only having a handful of followable artists. Of all the artists they could have set up, they have 14 – and U2 & Linkin Park are listed twice. I think Ping has a lot of potential, but it’s not super useful yet.
Pingback: Ping: social media from Apple and customer service | VincentLeleux.com
http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

Let’s go slow from the top.

social COMMERCE. The post is about COMMERCE.

I make recommendations all the time for free. I also make recommendations on products that I think are valuable, and I pick up the task of marketing them, because I believe they’re worthy. I get compensated for marketing them.

That’s two different use cases.

My point is that APPLE would do better to empower social commerce, because what they’re doing now is that they’re asking us to market on their behalf for free.

See the difference?
http://suwanneerefugee.blogspot.com Suwannee Refugee

I’m not a fan of Apple’s Ping thingy because it seems half-assed. Really! How can you call anything you do online social anything without having facebook and/or twitter as a part of the equation. And before you throw stones, I’m a fan of Apple. I’m on my second notebook and first iphone.
http://suwanneerefugee.blogspot.com Suwannee Refugee

I’m not a fan of Apple’s Ping thingy because it seems half-assed. Really! How can you call anything you do online social anything without having facebook and/or twitter as a part of the equation. And before you throw stones, I’m a fan of Apple. I’m on my second notebook and first iphone.
http://stephenpickering.com StephenPickering

Thanks guys for agreeing! I feel validated! But to be clear, I don’t like Apple’s arrogance. I’m a supporter of the open web and all that that means. For instance, today on Twitter, even some of the biggest Apple fans are asking/complaining “Wait, only big name acts get an artist page on Ping?” and I’m thinking “Does that surprise you?” So I wish Steve/Apple weren’t so arrogant, but at the same time I remember Peter Drucker saying that every great genius has a great weakness, and without the weakness you wouldn’t get the genius part.
Pingback: Apple’s Disappointing Start to the Holiday Season « BRANDSforBRUNCH
http://www.twitter.com/mdemmick M. Drew Emmick

Wow…we are on the same wave length. I am also a supporter of the open web, and open technology in general. My wish that Apple would open itself up to developers isn’t criticism – it’s a selfish desire to get more out of their already great products. For example, I have considered making the switch from the iPhone to Android. Google has done a great job of growing it’s developer community and I look forward to innovations that come through that channel. But I love my iPhone. It’s aesthetically pleasing and by far the most user friendly smart phone. The jailbreak movement has also shown that when used to it’s full potential, Apple’s technology is far superior to other cell phone manufacturers. It’s hard not to question if Apple is leaving innovation and revenue on the table. I also find Jobs business approach to be arrogant and deaf to open source developers. But until I build a company that dominates it’s market I won’t pretend to know better than Jobs. There is much more at play than we will ever know.
http://www.twitter.com/mdemmick M. Drew Emmick

You make a great point that I haven’t considered. Facebook hasn’t been an effective channel for indie artists. I know this from personal experience. MySpace continues to fill that void but has virtually lost it’s relevancy in the social networking movement. Ping could EASILY take it’s place. That said, I question the viability of a social network that’s not web-based or PC-friendly. A lot of social networking occurs on the web at work. Also, until our economy recovers, PCs will continue to be popular because they are affordable.
http://www.twitter.com/mdemmick M. Drew Emmick

After considering your points today I realized that I do agree with them, and our differences are semantic. The value exchange between the artist and fan could make Ping a great asset to artists – no doubt about it. The music industry is hurting right now, and marketing channels like this are needed. When commenting last night, my focus was on social networking and the value exchange between consumers – if that makes sense.
lyneka

Why is my comment flagged for review?
http://www.jeremymeyers.com/ Jeremy Meyers

They’re doing okay now, Chris. And its not like they’d still be apple if they opened up and paid dividends. The movies/music/etc are a loss leader to sell their hardware, always has been. They dont need the headache of having to deal with the media companies archaic system of lawyers (who i’m sure would demand an additional cut, if not outright refusing… i bet they’re mad about amazon’s program as well).

Apple is apple because of this closed ecosystem and controlled experience mentality. of COURSE they want you to sell stuff for them. Thats how they got popular in the first place. Not by being social, but by having remarkable products and building an insular cultlike tribe around them.

Apple fanboys will do whatever steve says, and all the public griping about it wont change that.

http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

I didn’t write the post to say whether Apple was doing well with their methods or not. I said that it’s not social commerce if people can’t make money off the system.

http://twitter.com/CristianIsDaMan Cristian Gonzales

“Apple fanboys will do whatever Steve says, and all the public griping about it won’t change that”—true, but not necessarily 100% of the time.

I used to be a huge Apple addict. Anything it threw at me, I would buy. Nowdays, that’s not the case, especially with the economy we’re in right now. iPad? Nah, didn’t bother. It didn’t have any value for me at all whatsoever.

However, I think the gazillion and a half apps that are pretty unique and interesting for the iPad is what’s given that product value. Why do I bring that up? It goes to show that for some consumers, what I would call the “independent” Apple user (just as we have the “independent” or “swing” voter in elections), it’s not enough anymore that it’s Apple. There has to be something else to it to make it worth my while.

That’s why Ping coming onto iTunes, for me, has value. I stopped buying my music from iTunes awhile back because all my files were m4a files, and they weren’t compatible with everything (Tumblr, for example). It pissed me off. Then, when I would try and convert some of those files to mp3′s so it would be compatible, iTunes wouldn’t let me. Sure, there are ways around this, but downloading music and having compatible files of the music you purchased should play across all platforms, not just Apple’s. So I switched over to Amazon.

But with Ping hopping on board and what I find to be a rather cool thing they’re doing with iTunes, it may just get me to switch back over.

Point is, “Apple fanboys” are not just the kind who will buy and hop onto whatever Apple puts out there. Not anymore anyway.
http://www.jeremymeyers.com/ Jeremy Meyers

I would say that you are no longer Apple’s core customer, then. The app store is “interesting and unique” because they have pretty strict quality control, which people have blasted for being ‘arbitrary’. The thing with their strategy is that it breeds blind devotion, and when people who are blindly devoted feel let down by the object of their devotion, they react dramatically. They are interested in building more blind devotees. If you want more open architecture, go somewhere else. Google, maybe.
http://twitter.com/CristianIsDaMan Cristian Gonzales

Well, that’s fine by me. I like to be an independent-minded consumer so to speak, not a blind devotee to Apple.

Why Ping Is a Stepping Stone to Social Commerce

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