Women in the Workplace

Two articles from the Harvard Business Review caught my attention because they were back to back in my RSS feed: What the U.S. Can Learn From Europe About Gender Equality in the Workplace, and also Can She Lead? In both cases, they are mostly positive articles, or rather, they aim for positive outcomes for women, but it also shows one frame for the challenge.

New data from the Center for Work-Life Policy demonstrate that while 47% of college-educated entry-level corporate professionals are female, women comprise a mere 21% of senior executives, 17% of Congress (PDF link) and 15% of board directors.

But in my recent effort to learn what women want, I found that not all women want to lead. Let me be really clear: some do, and we should be very clear and helpful in making sure that women have the chance/choice to lead, when they are qualified and capable (quick side note: lots of male leaders are neither qualified nor capable, so maybe that’s not even a consideration we should have).

We should, however, accept that maybe there are other ways that women are contributing to the business landscape, both inside of corporations (Thank you Meg Whitman, Carly Fiorina, Carol Bartz, et al), but also outside ( Pam Slim, Tara Hunt, Becky McCray). Meaning, let’s be really clear that maybe those numbers point to a need for improvement, but maybe they point to the fact that it’s not always the position some women seek to attain.

I could interview 100 women and I’d get 70-80 different answers on one’s career aspirations. This is a beautiful thing. Again, after reading Maddy Dychtwald’s book, I think we’re at a renaissance point of opening up women to the choice to have more leadership opportunities. And yet, it should always be a choice.

I don’t know. What’s your take? For you, not the stats. And men, what do you see around you as this environment supposedly shifts?

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  • http://www.gosmart4u.com Misty Lackie

    Chris I respect you for making this post. Correct not all women want to lead in corporate. What many don't see is women are leading and have been for a very long time. They are leaders in our communities, in our schools, in our non-profits, in our families. Many women seek leadership roles that will make a difference on a more meaningful level than a corporate role. Mary Weaver's comment is very accurate in my circles too.

    I also think that society looks down on men that take the “Mr Mom” role. That is a shame in my opinion and holds many men back from jumping into that role. It's too bad that society doesn't give men that choice.

  • http://oddfellowstudios.com Shava Nerad

    On a slightly different point picked up from other comments: over 25% of American kids are living in single parent households, and an overwhelming majority of those households are headed by women. Over 75% of kids today will live in a single parent household at some point before they hit 18.

    You may be painfully aware of this — but a lot of folks are so totally oblivious.

    When I was a single mom, working as a VP/Marketing and Business Development for the 3rd fastest growing private company in Oregon, my son's elementary school teacher kept sending home 2 hour “make work” projects for him to do on *weekdays*. My weekday looked like this: Get us ready, drop Joseph at school, go to work. Pick Joseph up at 6pm, prep/eat dinner, kid to bed. There was no time in there for a 2h set of worksheet “learning games.” I wish!

    At the parent/teacher meeting, I pointed out to his teacher what her demographics were. I couldn't imagine I was the only single parent feeling like she was missing a spare clue. When I complained that there were issues single parents had, that she might not be anticipating in her lesson plans, her reaction?

    “Have you considered dating?”

    *boggle*

    Workplace understanding can be just as bad. Before I got the position at eMarket Group, I had 14 interviews. As a new (and still stinging) single mom, when the interview got to the “any more questions?” stage I was blunt. “I can't work more than 40 hours in the office. I have to pick my son up from afterschool at 6pm or they put him out with the trash. And if my son is sick, I work from home.”

    My friends were appalled. “Just *shut up* about this stuff! Negotiate it later!” But my life was in enough transition. I wanted to find the company that “got it.” When I interviewed at eMarket Group, the Executive VP (a woman with no children and no plans personally to have any) said, “Uh, well *duh!*” and I knew I had a new home. It was an awesomely affirming place to work, in terms of understanding full lives and flexibility.

    How about where you work? Your family? Your friends? Your volunteer work? Does every context of your life understand you need a life, and so do the kids in your “village?”

  • Susan Milligan

    Some men are Mr. Mom and some women are Ms. CEO. So lumping by gender can be confusing if gender isn’t confusing enough already. We women can do both those jobs, but we don’t fully ‘have it all’, unless we make a choice between work or family. Men do have both but not equally, because his work generally wins over family.

    I have known a few men who are just and ethical in the workplace in terms of hiring women. You need to know that they and their wives are equal and balanced in their marriage also. I have seen that many companies are still good ol’ boys clubs. Theirs is an odd mixture of men that women would do well not to be part of .

    Women as leaders in the workplace isn’t just for corporate and big business. Chris, I’ve seen much inequality it in the trades and the professions in the past 30 years. Women simply don’t have a choice to become a foreman or advance to higher payscales. She can of course become a General Contractor running her own woman-owned business, but must still rely on a man to hire her company. It’s the old testosterone net still in place.

    Women don’t get the same choices that men give to other men.

  • DanielaAxinte

    For over 20 years I worked in male-dominated industries and did stereotypical corporate claiming thing. Unlike most women, I had no family obligations and focused only on my work – until I ended up in the hospital with a presumed heart attack. It turned out it was just a massive stress attack that put me out of commission for 3 months. Imagine a super A personality, with goals like “making the top 50 most influential women on Forbes magazine” and “building my company into a $1.5 billion company” sitting a home doing nothing… The night spent in the hospital was more than a wakeup call. At the end of very long and very brutal self assessment, I ended up giving away over 30 pairs of high-heels and all but one of my power suits, changed my goals, and replaced the corporate job with a “me, myself, and I” consulting business. Life – my life, was more important to me than getting at the top of the ladder. I also realized that I can have a much bigger impact from behind the scenes.

    That was a pretty logical explanation of my actions – or so I thought. It turns out that there is more to it. It has to do on how our brain works. A great eye opener is Louann Brizendine’s book “The Female Brain”. A neuropsychiastrist, Dr. Brizendine explains the psychology, the chemistry (i.e. hormones), and the mechanics of the brain. Women’s brains are designed to deal with multiple issues at the same time. It is not the lack of focus; it is the Stone Age brain that has to maintain not only peace in the cave, but protect and raise the offspring, prepare the food, and take care of the older people in the cave. Modern society only added to the list: climb the corporate ladder, do the laundry and the cooking, raise the kids, take care of both sets of parents, keep the peace at work/home/everywhere else you go, volunteer for at least 3 charities, be active in the PTA, run a marathon for a great cause, be the default shrink for family and friends. Ever wonder why most women fall asleep while taking a hot bath?

    Men’s Stone Age brain was designed for only one task: kill beast, bring it home. Modern society added golf to it. OK, I’m being sarcastic, but quite frankly not much has changed since – there is still the same one task: kill beast, bring it home. That allows men to be laser focused and dedicate much more time to their careers, and hence leadership.

    Those of us who got burned or had a very hard talk to ourselves decided to let others be the front leader. Don’t be too quick to judge: we are still having a significant impact (mommy bloggers power, anyone?) and are leading as we always had: from behind the scenes.

  • http://twitter.com/elizabethdamaro elizabethdamaro

    Very interesting discussion. While some might view what I'm about to say as primitive, I believe instead, it comes from being a realist:

    I think all I've seen missing is the very obvious differences there are between the genders regarding how their brain's operate, evaluate, decision make. Leading others, excelling, striving – in any career involves processes we just do differently. Women are by far more relational creatures. We tend to notice things like body language, tone. We have that “intuition” which is really nothing more than practice since birth “reading” people. We take that into our homes and our workplaces. This also means that our expectations of others will be filtered through these gray matters in our brains.

    Men lead differently. And it makes sense that there is a boys club to some degree. Men are less relational, less community driven, less the “team” player than a woman would be. They are also more emotional, but do a better job masking their feelings and just moving on with it. Boys play better with boys. Put girls in the mix, and you've got a whole lot of “what did he mean by that?” “why is she acting like this?”

    Women would do well to acknowledge that yes, sometimes it is a boy's club. So play on their field. By their rules. And endear yourself to their game until the opportunity arises where you can show them that you are “safe”. In other words, lead behind the scenes if that's what it takes. Besides, that's really a woman's strength. The communication centers in her brain offer her a grand advantage in manipulating a circumstance towards her favor. While some might say that is degrading or deceptive, I'd argue it's simply mastering our navigation in the circumstance we're in.

    The concept that somehow where it's “work” and not “home” somehow makes our differences obsolete is, I believe not only ignorant, but catastrophic to a good harmony where both men and women can lead – something. I think if we, as men and women, can appreciate that we don't leave our gender at home when we go after career, we'll do better at dancing with each other, rather than around each other.

    “Remember, Ginger Rogers did everything Fred Astaire did, but backwards and in high heels.” ~ Bob Thaves, “Frank and Ernest”, 1982

  • http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

    So, another way to see this might be “lead from a different chair.” Know what I mean? Not every leader has a C-level title.

  • http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

    So run with that last part. Are the alternative lifestyles making any ground? The villages, so to speak?

  • http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

    One of my best bosses, Debbie, lived the corporate role while her husband did the Mr Mom thing. It just was. He sometimes had a rough time of it with the guys. I know that *I* wouldn't be cut out for that kind of life, but I know that lots of people do it just wonderfully.

    To me, it's a tricky thing, though, because there's pretty much NO support for the “Mr Mom” role, such as it were. It's just not something our culture (western US-ish culture) supports. In other societies? I'm not sure that people in other cultures are any much bigger into it.

    • http://www.philsforum.com PhilWrzesinski

      Chris, I second that “NO support for the Mr. Mom role” comment.

      I teach a class for expectant fathers ad one thing I work hard on them is not letting anyone diminish the father’s role. Yet, I hear it all the time at my store – a woman comes in without her child (it’s a toy store – did I mention that?) and when asked where is the kid, she responds, “My husband’s home babysitting,” and no one thinks anything is wrong with that statement. But if you reverse it and have a guy say, “My wife is home babysitting the kids,” he’ll get his head ripped off.

      I do believe there are gender stereotypes that cause some of the problems, and those stereotypes work in both directions.

      But I also believe there are biological differences that cannot be ignored. Women’s brains are wired differently than men – that has been proven. Women relate with others differently than men – also pretty well-covered topic.

      Now, I don’t believe that either of these issues precludes a woman from being better at leadership than a man, nor do I believe it makes her better – just different – which flies in the face of the leadership mentality that exists in corporate America. So that’s a third strike against women in the c-suites.

      Is there an answer to equality? No, probably not, because of all the aforementioned issues. But the good news is that people are starting to acknowledge the differences, which is the first step towards understanding. And bottom line performace is becoming more critical, which will help weed out the uncapable and unqualified (men and women alike), allowing more people of both genders to have opportunity to make the choices they want.

      • http://www.larakulpa.com Lara Kulpa

        I’m only replying so I can quote this, but my comment goes on after:

        “when asked where is the kid, she responds, “My husband’s home babysitting,” and no one thinks anything is wrong with that statement. But if you reverse it and have a guy say, “My wife is home babysitting the kids,” he’ll get his head ripped off.”

        Growing up as the daughter of a volunteer fireman, where the guys used to have to account for where they were if they’d missed a call or a meeting and the answer was inevitably either “work” or “babysitting”, you’re absolutely right, but in a different way.

        The wives would be infuriated that their heroic husbands would claim “babysitting”, as they’re fathers first, and family is first.

        I tend to agree. I mean, sure, it’s a one-word way of saying “I couldn’t be here because I was with my children,” but this totally illustrates how the wrong word can be taken the wrong way.

        In regards to the post itself, as a female entrepreneur who currently works wearing so many hats I’d need a walk-in closet for them all, I can say that sometimes women can get so wrapped up in the “it’s not fair” mentality that they forget that we’re fabulous multi-taskers. We almost always find ourselves taking on so many labels and duties that it blinds us from progressing the way our hearts want us to.

        I think a lot of it has to do with our own perception of what it means to be a leader or achiever. If you had asked me 10 years ago what I’d be doing right now, my answer would’ve been something so far removed from what I’m actually doing it’d make your head spin. It took me the last 5 years to even get to where I am, and I’m so not done yet.

        From here, I’ve still got big plans to be a CEO, wife, and mother. Yes, I’m one of the ones who wants to lead. But guess what? I can take the support route while I’m on my way and be perfectly happy as long as each day brings me a step closer to my dreams than the last. It’s a matter of complacency and comfort. I’m NOT going to give in until I’ve reached my goals. But people in general tend to get tired of trying and decide to stay put, remain stagnant. That’s fine for them. I know dozens of people who are absolutely happy and carefree in their low-mid-level positions. Others, like me, won’t rest until they get to the top of their game.

        Bottom line? It works both ways for both genders. Either you put the work in or you don’t. But people like Rieva and others who choose this time to complain about equality and gender bias rather than just focusing on their own process are what drags it all down. It’s far better to use a discussion like this to empower yourself and use it to your own emotional advantage than try to argue a point that’s been battled for the last 35+ years. Guess what? Most new entrepreneurs weren’t even born when the feminist movement was at it’s peak… why dig up dead horses now?

  • http://blog.terra30.com Daniela Axinte

    Absolutely. Here a link to an WSJ article that addresses the issue of women entrepreneurs and why most women-owned businesses rarely go above $1 million. The reasons why men start businesses vs. women's reasons are very interesting and in line with my previous comments. Men want to be their own bosses and to build the biggest business they can. Women want to be challenged and to have more flexibility on their schedules. In an survey, most of them said they don't want to grow it too big. They simply they don't want the business to take over their lives, which would defeat the purpose of starting it in the first place.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240527487

    Great topic! Thanks for having the courage to write it – especially, from a guy's perspective. I am pleasantly surprised on how many (passionate) comments it generated. As writer, you achieved your goal: getting people to think about the topic you write. Awesome!

  • Jim Torrens

    Chris, by highlighting the undisputable fact that “not all women want to lead,” and not mentioning the equally undisputable fact that not all men want to lead, I'm afraid you're missing the point and reinforcing a bias that contributes to the disparities mentioned in the article. You're suggesting that women are less likely than men to want to lead, and that this difference could (at least partially) explain the disparity. Have you tested your theory in any rigorous, non-anecdotal way? If not, you may want to consider that assumptions about women – about their preferred and appropriate roles, as well as their capacities to fill the entire range of roles – are more likely to explain the numbers. You don't need explicit discrimination to have this kind of effect, though we shouldn't dismiss it. Biased expectations (among both men and women) can go a long way toward limiting opportunities for women.

  • http://www.accidentalseeker.com/ Karen Talavera

    To try to answer your original question (as I understand it from your first reply in comments) will women who want to lead lead the same way as men?

    In a truly organic system, no, I don't believe they would. Masculine and feminine are two opposite sides of the coin that makes for the whole human experience. But in terms of today's reality, an “organic system” is light years from what we actually have. Women have been basically taught leadership skills largely by men until about 30 years ago, so many (but not all) of them have modeled masculine communication and management traits for lack of having feminine role models. Think about it – men have been in power for millenia, so all the styles of management and organization of governments, institutions, companies, kingdoms, schools and families passed down to those of us alive today have been driven by the masculine for a long, long time.

    Finally, in the 80's the tables began to turn, but we are still decades (at least) away from having a critical mass of female role models in place across all walks of life in order to determine just how women nurtured and taught by other women will lead, and what that feminine style will look like. Just think about it – only 50 years of birth control, maybe 30-40 of true equality in the workplace, vs. 5,000 years of male dominated civilization? Feminine leadership is just at the tip of the iceberg, although today's world makes it possible for it to advance in quantum leaps rather than linear growth.

    We also haven't had much time for women to have had the autonomy and equal footing to witness the traditionally masculine style of leadership and – whether they modeled or rejected it – think about developing their own style and then, actually develop and model it forward. Meaning: the feminine style isn't institutionalized anywhere in our world except the home.

    And even once there's a critical mass of women equal in numbers and influence to men across all insitutions, there's the risk of a masculine, traditionally “dominator” leadership style simply being transferred from generation to generation of women for some time until it has time to blend with the feminine and evolve into an integrated style (or whatever). (if you're read Thom Hartmann's “The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight” you'll understand about the “dominator” legacy which has led us to the world we're in now. If you haven't read it, I highly recommend).

    In a nutshell, it's a thrilling but challenging time (IMHO and own direct experience) to be alive as a woman today mostly because we are actively living our own evolution in what most women can experience within a single lifetime. I see the “rise of the feminine” all around us, evolving as we write about it, and only time will tell how it looks once it's manifest in the world. But one thing's for sure based on the innate nature of the feminine and how women have been making things work for themselves throughout history – when the feminine DOES fully manifest into reality (and by that I mean it manifests as a style, with both genders embracing it as a dimension of the whole rather than an “either-or” choice), it will result in a world quite different from the one we humans have created so far.

    And I say, it's about damn time for some balance in that human equation!

  • http://oddfellowstudios.com Shava Nerad

    I think they are. Companies are offering whole-life recognizing benefits — Whole Foods comes to mind in general, but on-site daycare and flex time and job sharing are becoming much more popular (albeit, you don't see much paternity care offers).

    But a lot of these benefits are under threat in a tight economy. I even saw someone saying that it was the “socialist” benefits offered in the EU that was sinking their economies. (Couldn't have anything to do with pandering Greek elected officials and stoopid banks and this global crisis, now, could it?) In most if not all the EU, paternity leave is law, health care is universal, and in many countries you get paid to have kids so the earning setbacks of parenthood are buffered.

    Then you have households like mine, which are still unusual. I'm a liberal with family values. It's me and Fish, my 17 year old son, and my 89-year-old grandmother — and we're starting a company out of our house. Admittedly it makes for bad home/work boundaries sometimes — but I prefer to think of it as a very well integrated life! If you see me out in the evening, you know I'm missing my family dinner, which is being shared by the flanking generations in our absence. But if I end up working in an office, almost certainly Fish would stay home more than I would and help with mom. He's better suited to working from home, and it wouldn't be a question of gender.

    My son at 17 thinks of issues of sexism, racism and homophobia as being the trailing edge of cultural change — but then, we do live in Massachusetts. I don't think he's going to have much issue working with strong women as he grows up. And ultimately, that's where the real change will come — from children who grow up with role models that say, everyone should have options; everyone should have choice; everyone should be treated fairly, and recognized for their talents and hard work.

  • Lisa Brown

    Boys and men (with a desire to lead) do not have to look far to find role models among America's most successful companies and the path to success often goes something like this: ambition, hard work, dedication, etc.

    For girls and women, role models are harder to find and the path has a lot of variables. There is no standard formula for women to achieve balance and success (ironically, as we shift toward a more equal society, more men are seeking balance which alters the “formula” and means that men and women have a similar problem).

    As a society we are already making progress in this shift, but there are three key areas (that come to mind) where we could do better:

    1. ENCOURAGE FLEX TIME: Make policies like flexible schedules, telecommuting, and paid time off a basic workplace benefit rather than a “perk.” Top down support and supervisors who “get it” make all the difference.

    2. ACCEPT ALTERNATIVE FAMILY LIFE: Have an open mind toward alternative lifestyles of all sorts including families with two dads, two moms, ambitious single moms (double whammy), working moms with stay at home dads, etc. The more we see different kinds of families figuring out this balancing act, the easier it will become to model.

    3. SUPPORT WOMEN FOR REAL: Women need to be more supportive of other women – not just theoretically but in practice. Too often women end up competing on their way up the corporate ladder. We should take thoughtful steps to reach out to those ahead of us (seek out mentors) and behind us (help others achieve success).

    The more we see women in top positions, the easier it will be for women to envision themselves in this role (making it more of a possibility than a dream).

  • http://twitter.com/Rieva Rieva

    I am a bit shocked we're having this conversation today in 2010. It would have been more appropriate 20 years ago, when women started rocking the entrepreneurial world and their startup rate doubled (and often tripled) the general startup rate. In 1978 women owned about 4 percent of all the businesses in the US, today it's nearly 40. Women weren't even “allowed” to get credit in their own names until 1974. Women are still at a big disadvantage when it comes to access to captial, and let's not even talk about access to VC money.
    Just in terms of sheer numbers, the first group of the original baby boom (which I believe peaked in 1957) were not given many choices or shown many opportunities to “learn a trade.” In the late 60s I was given 3 choices of “what I could be” by my high-school guidance counselor–and I was a smart kid. Needless to say I rejected his choices (teacher, nurse or secretary) and forged my own path. I believe I was the first female editorial director of a general business magazine, but that didn't mean I was paid or treated the same as a man would have been in my postition.
    The underlying premise of your point Chris assumes that ALL men want to lead. And they don't. Nor are they necessarily good (or better) at it. These comparisons between male and female leadership might be more valid if men and women were treated equally in this country, but they're not. While the overt sexism of the “Mad Men” era is gone (mostly), there's still plenty of covert sexism to go around.
    Instead of asking why women don't want to lead, perhaps we should be wondering why there's still such a huge wage gap in American, why women do NOT get equal opportunity, particularly when it comes to money issues, and how very sad it is this question had to be posed.
    Stop searching for the answer to what women want; it's like looking for the Holy Grail. There are hundreds of millions of us and some of us want what some of the hundreds of millions of men want and the rest of us want other things. We women are not monolithic yearners.

    • http://nathanhangen.com/blog Nathan Hangen

      There’s one in every crowd.

    • http://twitter.com/mdrabik Michelle Drabik

      I understand Chris’ issues with this response. But, as a mid-career professional woman, I understand where Rieva is coming from, too. I have been exploring gender bias through involvement with diversity initiatives at my company. (I love my company.) Frankly, I was shocked to discover how much rationalizing I’ve done about the bias I have seen, experienced, and even (unwittingly) enabled in my career. Clearly, Rieva was quicker than I in recognizing the realities of gender bias and is passionate about it. We need to be outraged, because it *is* outrageous that gender bias can still be an issue in corporate America in 2010. In her response, Rieva raises some very important points:

      1. Sexism is still alive and well.

      It’s not necessarily covert, which implies intent. I think it is more of a failure to recognize white male privilege and the resulting subconscious sexism. Most of the decision-makers I know, men and women, have good intentions and have championed improvements. But, there is so far to go.

      It took me years to admit that the primary determinants of my career progress were not merely hard work and talent. I received many kudos and rewards (and much more work), but not the particular career-propelling opportunities that fast tracked my male peers for highly-compensated, direction-setting jobs. I duped myself into thinking that I was taking the right steps to control my own career destiny. I control it now, but had to reconstruct my approach on the ashes of long-held beliefs.

      I have long led from another chair. The question is, “Why should I have to?”

      2. Perhaps we’re avoiding the priority problem by diverting attention to fruitless analysis of wants

      Clearly, asking someone what they want is better than shoving what you think they want at them. However, such rhetoric can be an avoidance technique. If I make the issue about undefined personal wants, then, as a decision maker, I can offer mentoring and my job is done. If I recognize it as a systemic problem of unequal opportunities, suddenly it is a big, complex problem that rattles my own security, requires major changes, and becomes imperative for me to address. Ick.

      3. There’s still a huge wage gap

      Chris cites statistics that say the gap is narrowing. No matter the size, should a gap exist at all in 2010? While women are paid less than men, they continue to have more stress and less opportunity. Stress and costs rise when a business trip means you have to scramble to find a live-in caregiver at a cost you can’t afford…or pay daycare an extra $100 to attend an emergency meeting scheduled on a day you don’t usually work…or are expected to work—and pay a sitter—on your unpaid FMLA because a crisis arose at the office…or part-time simply means you must do the full job in fewer hours at reduced pay.

      4. We do not provide equal opportunity

      We need to stop clinging to work structures defined back in a Donna Reed world. Neither women nor men who don’t fit the archaic stereotype can fully engage in their careers in this model—and we are losing out on their talents. With the many options available to us now for rethinking work-life, work locations, job responsibilities, etc., why can’t we move it along on this issue? A woman (or man) shouldn’t have to found a new company to align values with opportunities.

      Thanks to both Chris and Rieva—and all the other commenters—for thought-provoking discussion.

  • annawoods04

    Not every women is career oriented, some are but they dont get the opportunity while some have then they dont want to make the opportunity worthwhile. Not everyone is born with a golden spoon so one who are not lucky enough should understand the importance of the opportunity.

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  • http://www.webconsuls.com Judy Helfand

    Hi Rieva,
    Yes, I started my day here and it seems I will end my day here reading these comments. The comments and commenters are remarkable. And sadly, we are having this conversation in 2010. Chris mentions a couple of news stories in his post, but there were others in the past week:
    Here are the links to those stories,
    When Female Networks Aren't Enough http://s.hbr.org/9sdiX6
    A Toolkit for Women Seeking a Raise – http://nyti.ms/a1cXuU

    Here is a link to a post I wrote a year ago, Chris Brogan RT this week, it deals with the whole struggle of young women in the work force, you might enjoy it and the follow up comments: Thanking Lilly Ledbetter http://bit.ly/a9MgfU

    Finally, as I told Chris earlier this morning: I think a more interesting article for people to read this week about women and what they can and need to do for the current economic situation is TIME Magazine profile of Elizabeth Warren, Mary Schapiro and Sheila Bair, The New Sheriffs of Wall Street…The women charged with cleaning up the mess. http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,…
    Nice meeting you, @judyhelfand

  • http://www.wanderwomanbook.com Marcia Reynolds

    I did ask 100 strong, smart women what they wanted from work in my doctoral research. Although the type of work they like might be different, what they want out of work is similar. The question of being a leader or not was not the biggest issue on their mind. More than titles and money they want motion and meaning. They love having frequent new challenges to conquer, ones that make them feel significant, even give them a sense of purpose. However, this can make them restless as they constantly need to find “something more” in their lives. I summarized my research in a Huffington Post article called What Women Want… at Work. I also have a letter for women that work inside companies can send to their executives on my website, http:www.wanderwomanbook.com. Women, both inside and out, will find guidance in the first personal development book aimed at strong, ambitious women that will be released next week, Wander Woman: How High-Achieving Women Find Contentment and Direction.

  • http://www.r4card.com.au/ m3 real

    It is really very big issue and most probably appropriate to discuss also. It is very important to maintain dignity in front of women at work place. Today almost 70% women are working or want to work. Respect is very important for women and it should be given to all. Very nice article for this subject. Very nicely discussed.

  • http://www.r4-ds-carta.it/ dsi r4

    Well today women has proved them selves the best in all the fields as well as in their personal life also.Women very well know how to manage personal and professional life.

  • http://twitter.com/cosmond charlie osmond

    Hi Chris,
    Good points. You'd love this fascinating Financial Times podcast on the Gender Pay Gap for MBAs.
    http://podcast.ft.com/index.php?pid=12

    The journalist/interviewer constantly tries to sensationalise research findings and create a story of “women have it tough”. Thankfully the researcher (Professor of Economics from Chicago B-School) sticks to her guns and points out that any pay gap that exists is more due to a women's choice than any discrimination.

    Hope all's well
    Charlie
    http.www.freshnetworks.com

  • http://www.lindseynobles.com Lindsey Nobles

    I would also point at that not all men want to “lead.” They might feel societal pressures to succeed in the workplace but they don't all want to lead.

  • http://win-warhammer-40k.blogspot.com/ Darkseer

    The only real change I've seen with more women in the workplace is an increased breach of basic health and safety. Too many of them wear fitflops and other fashionable summer sandals instead of the proper shoes which are required when in the warehouse. It's a legal action just waiting to happen…

  • JennyRain

    I am one of those women who definitely does NOT want to lead…

    I spent almost two decades in corporate America leading training departments. By God's grace, I was good at it and enjoyed it. It just never felt like “me.”

    Fast forward 18 years. I am now the Exec Asst to a Sr. Pastor at a church. I am a secretary and I LOVE it. Sporadically I am called on to train others – which is a blast – but being in a position where I can fly under the radar and support those in leadership – to me – is awesome.

    In my world I see women DYING for leadership… dying to be led… dying to step out of places where they are in leadership they feel has been forced upon them. I also see other women dying to get INTO leadership positions and fighting beliefs, doctrine, organizations, and policies to get there.

    I see capable women who are leading, and I see capable women who are following.

    For me, there is no one right answer. For me, it depends on where you are called and how you are wired and then stepping into that place. For me, I prefer to follow… it just took me twenty years to learn that :)

  • http://jenfongspeaks.com Jennifer Fong

    I really love this topic. And I think you're right in that not all women want to lead…at least not in the traditional sense. We have to remember that today's corporate structure has essentially been created by men. Women often prefer to do things differently. I think women ARE leading in many areas, just perhaps its not as obvious because the roles are not as clearly defined. We can't fit them into a box. I see plenty of women of influence on Twitter…they may not all be leading multi-national corporations, but they are appealing to their target audiences in a way that indicates they clearly understand what their market needs. Perhaps with the advent of social media we are going to see a fundamental shift in leadership too. Because social media is about understanding the needs of the target market we serve. And historically, women have been very good at getting below the surface, into the heart of things.

    We have been able to do many things well…nurture our families, as well as change the face of the workplace with things like time-flex jobs, etc. And my industry, direct selling, has a huge percentage of women, each owning their own business, but on a schedule that allows them to nurture their many commitments.

    We are not where we need to be as a society in terms of pay equality. But I think we're seeing a real shift in the role women play in the workplace, and what the workplace itself looks like.

    Thanks for such a thought-provoking piece!

  • menwithpens

    I personally know there's a whole can of worms in the Pandora's box of gender equality – I chose to be a leader, and I chose not to be a woman to achieve that goal. That experience had me living all kinds of wild rides, and many, many people demanded my answers to some hard questions about my choices that aren't so easily answered.

    But no one – NO ONE – ever asked me if women really want to lead in the first place. That's an awesome, thought-provoking idea right there.

    In my case? I say yes – I wanted it. But as a whole…? I'm not sure the majority of women want it badly enough.

    And I'm also (someone's going to shoot me for saying this) not sure that I'd want a majority of women leaders… they tend to lead differently than men, and I personally don't always enjoy the angle that takes.

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  • http://www.accuconference.com Maranda Gibson

    Wow — really enjoying reading all the comments on this one.

    I think I'd like to go ahead and say that yes, gender does and can factor into career decisions, but not just for women. Men too are making the decision to stay at home. I also think that 10-15 years ago, there was not the technology to support at Stay at Home CEO, but now there is. Anyone who can access a computer can run a company and attend a meeting. The need for actual “in-office” time has been drastically cut.

    Lyndsey makes a very valid point — not all men want to lead, just like not all women want to lead. Maybe I've joined the workplace in a different era (I am only 26) and I've seen things operate differently, but I think if any woman (or man for that matter) feels like they have to make a choice between children and career, we only have ourselves to blame. We can't define people so generally anymore, there's a lot to take into consideration beyond which checkbox you mark on a survey.

  • http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

    Well true. Not all men want to lead. I wasn't discounting the male perspective. I just wasn't writing about it. : )

  • http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

    Hell, you could write a whole different post full of gender fun. : )

  • http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

    Awesome, Charlie. Thanks for sharing that, and say hi to #bodger for me. : )

  • http://kalinago.blogspot.com Karenne Sylvester

    What's the stats of men wanting to lead versus who take on leadership positions?

    And how about stats on women who want to lead (and have the life situation in place to do this) versus those who get that opportunity.

    Way more interesting.

    Also an investigation into the reasons – the Maslow type needs reasons especially on the man front…

  • Annie

    I think this is interesting, because “Mr. Mom” is mentioned a lot, but this is clearly the exception, rather than the rule. Single-parent households run by women are becoming the norm in many ways. Not only are these women forced to balance the dispensation of their leadership (rather than applying it almost solely to their professional lives, as many men with wives at home do), but I think there is a growing lack of trust. When women lose their trust in the leadership and integrity of men in the personal realm, there's no way for that not to effect the professional realm. Many, many women want to lead and are wired and capable to do so. Many more do so because they no longer trust that men will grow up and step up. Not only that, but the prolonged adolescence that often accompanies being men who've grown up without present and engaged fathers contributes to women getting married much later, when their career are already in full-swing and their leadership is being cultivated toward a professional end. That isn't meant as a bitter indictment of men, because inspection of current generations of men will reveal second and third generations of fatherless households, so the cards are stacked against their success. It is a reality, however, that in a culture where being a husband of a stable household used to be one of the markers that you were cut out for professional success, there is a sense that while the options are opening up for women, they are closing in also, as being bread-winner of household, sole provider of income, and primary daily example of professional leadership and success are no longer optional for many women.

  • karolrose

    Chris, I think you’re ‘right on’. While there are more choices for women and while women have advanced in organizations, for the most part it’s been because of their determination and sacrifice and in spite of the employer’s efforts, not because of them. Organizations haven’t changed very much, and it’s clearly time they do – both for women and for their own self interest. We must acknowledge two facts: 1) women have had to adapt to a workplace that was designed for work to be in a ‘place’ and be done without interruption, and 2) women have been, and continue to be, the primary caregiver (even though men are doing more).

    These facts have often caused women to make choices they might not have wanted to make. What’s needed is for women – and men – to be able to have the flexibility they need to manage their work and personal lives most effectively. Today, while many organizations have flexible work arrangements – part time, compressed schedule, flex time, telework and flexible career paths — on the ‘books’, they are not necessarily encouraged or considered the ‘norm’ so that taking advantage of them may cause a woman to be seen as less than a full contributor and derail her career or even cause her to lose her job.

    What’s been missing in many of today’s companies is a truly flexible work environment that takes into account the dramatic changes that have take place in the workforce, the workday, the workplace and the work team. These changes require employers to make flexibility the standard way of operating when considering how, when, where and how much work is done. They also need to examine the way the organization people processes – recruitment, on-boarding, talent management, job assignment, diversity/inclusion efforts, etc, — to make sure they are aligned with the dramatic changes that have taken place, and that they incorporate the perspective of flexible work both for the sustainability of the enterprise and so that women (and men) can choose a new way of leading and achieve their full potential as employees and as people with full lives and responsibilities outside work.

  • karolrose

    Chris, I think you’re ‘right on’. While there are more choices for women and while women have advanced in organizations, for the most part it’s been because of their determination and sacrifice and in spite of the employer’s efforts, not because of them. Organizations haven’t changed very much, and it’s clearly time they do – both for women and for their own self interest. We must acknowledge two facts: 1) women have had to adapt to a workplace that was designed for work to be in a ‘place’ and be done without interruption, and 2) women have been, and continue to be, the primary caregiver (even though men are doing more).

    These facts have often caused women to make choices they might not have wanted to make. What’s needed is for women – and men – to be able to have the flexibility they need to manage their work and personal lives most effectively. Today, while many organizations have flexible work arrangements – part time, compressed schedule, flex time, telework and flexible career paths — on the ‘books’, they are not necessarily encouraged or considered the ‘norm’ so that taking advantage of them may cause a woman to be seen as less than a full contributor and derail her career or even cause her to lose her job.

    What’s been missing in many of today’s companies is a truly flexible work environment that takes into account the dramatic changes that have take place in the workforce, the workday, the workplace and the work team. These changes require employers to make flexibility the standard way of operating when considering how, when, where and how much work is done. They also need to examine the way the organization people processes – recruitment, on-boarding, talent management, job assignment, diversity/inclusion efforts, etc, — to make sure they are aligned with the dramatic changes that have taken place, and that they incorporate the perspective of flexible work both for the sustainability of the enterprise and so that women (and men) can create new ways of leading, and achieve their full potential as employees and as people with full lives and responsibilities outside work.

  • http://www.amandatelford.com Amanda Telford

    I don't know – do all men want to lead? I would venture to say that (if you caught them in a non-public conversation!) they probably don't all want that either. So the percentage of women leading isn't so much skewed when you look at the fact that for both genders, the preference to lead isn't universal. So I think these numbers DO need improvement since as you put it, it isn't always the position a person (generically) seeks to attain.

  • http://agilnetwork.blogspot.com/ Samuel Rodriguez

    Good point Chris!
    Every person must have the same oportunities. I remember when i worked here in Mexico for an european corporation, they issued an internal policy in order to balance the distribution of high positions. The intention was good and fair, but i think they forced the situation in some cases just in order to balance the positions in one year. At certain moment there were not enough ladies to cover the positions.

  • http://twitter.com/bethkeserauskis bethkeserauskis

    Thank you, Chris, for starting this discussion, and thank you Jezra for pointing out how women have to choose between career and families (not in all instances, but many). I am one of those women who chose to chase my career instead of having children, and now at 34 have to decide against the clock whether I want to put my career on hold to have children or keep climbing. My husband will be gracious enough to assume the role of childcare provider, but I guarantee you that career will slow considerably, as there is no way I could have accomplished everything I did in the last 10 years if I had children. And each male exec at the top where I work (and they are all male at the state university where I work) had a wife stay home and raise kids and run the house.

    I can also say with absolute certainty that I lead a team different than a man would. I was “raised” to be a manager by male bosses, and can say that the main thing I learned from them is what I NEVER want to do as a manager.

  • http://www.r4-ds.es/ r4i gold

    Now a days mostly women are working and also doing work of home in this costly generation. So women are in the workplace more than other field.

  • beckymccray

    All through school, I was the only, or one of the only, girls involved in technology.Twice I was in the first class of females allowed into a technology course.

    My career has been a mix of traditional and nontraditional. I worked in nonprofits (fairly dominated by women), and city government (fairly dominated by men). I ran for political office. (Still incredibly dominated by men. Oklahoma remains one of the worst in the nation for the low percentage of women in the legislature.) But, at heart, I'm an entrepreneur. I didn't choose to become an entrepreneur so I could break out of the gender roles of the corporate world. (I opted out of the big city idea, but that is another story.)

    What is coming next, and what can your daughter expect in 10 or 15 years? My pessimistic version is that not much will change. I mean, how different is it really from the limitations my mom faced in the oil business corporations of the early 1980s, thirty years ago? Mom will tell you that she fought many of the same battles her grandmother fought. (just ask her)

    My hopeful version is that women and men together are going to reshape the old ways of leading, the old ways of organizing to accomplish goals. Pirate ship companies will become the norm. For entrepreneurs: not free agents, guild members.

    Chris, you point out that 40% of privately owned businesses are run by women. However, the majority of privately owned businesses have zero employees, and that's doubly true in women owned small businesses. Where does the change really come about? Gazelles, high growth entrepreneurial firms. If we can help more women lead there, in whatever style, we will be setting the trends that shape women's participation in the near future.

  • http://www.plantronics.com Renee Niemi

    I personally appreciate the intent of your articles, although it's never quite that simple. As a working mom by night and female executive by day, I can appreciate the very real decision women have to make regarding life/work balance. At the end of the day, there are a lot of high quality executive women who chose to be the CEO of the family vs. CEO of their office – many of which are my dear friends. And thank goodness for them – they spend their smarts helping my children in the class room, raising money for our public schools system so my kids can have art classes and music classes in grade school. Conversely, I've chosen the executive in the office path…and although most days I manage to mask both world's from each other, there are days where they collide. Can I really take of 3 mornings this week to attend all of my kids recitals and graduations? Unfortunately, in many organizations, the higher you are on the corporate ladder the less transparent you can be – and some days, I feel like I'm failing on both fronts. So it's not easy for executive women, especially 'moms' – and I personally respect all who try to make it work as much as those who know which kingdom them want to 'rule'.

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  • Rick

    I have no doubt that many deserving women find it difficult to advance in to positions of leadership in their companies due to bias. However, it goes both ways. If a man decides he doesn't want to be a leader, he's often painted a loser, is ostracized and whatever career ambitions he does have can be ignored. Not all people want to be leaders, men and women alike. It would behoove businesses of all types to engage their employees as individuals, not as genders, to assess their interest and potential and support their development and advancement accordingly.

  • chris_krasovich

    Until this type of article no longer needs to be written, we have a long way to go. Is any one even bothering to ask men whether or not they'd “like” to lead? My guess is no. They numbers are not skewed because women just don't feel like being achieving in their industries, they are a measure of very real inequality that still exists in the corporate sector.

  • http://twitter.com/marielacastro Mariela Castro

    I´m not very fond of the idea of discussing whether women, handicaped, chinese, black or any other “category” want or not to lead, or have the right to do or receive something just because they are “member of a category”. Since you put people in this kind of ghetto, you reinforce the prejudice against them, instead of stimulating competences, learning and opportunities based on equality.

    But I agree that when we study why these differences occur, and work to eliminate them not “protecting” minorities, but only giving them the same access to education and professional opportunities based on skills, we can have a light in the end of the tunnel.

    A recent book (CAREER GPS: Strategies for Women Navigating the New Corporate Landscape), from Ella Bell, professor at Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth, is one of this examples — understanding the corporate world in order to reduce the differences between men and women in the workforce.

  • lindavandevrede

    Hi, Chris. Interesting post. I may qualify as someone you wanted to ask, since I am childless by choice (altho happily married). I've been in the high-tech workplace for more than 25 years. I started out wanting to lead. After being exposed to what seemed to me illlogical, egotistical leadership, I chose to opt out and lead my own business. I moved cross-country for companies, put in the 60-hour workweeks, etc. So I earned my dues. After being in the game and seeing what the players were like, however, I didn't like the personalities who ended up in high-tech, nor did I have any desire after that to be with them, let alone lead them. Don't know if this helps, but it's just my perspective….

  • http://dogandogs.com/ Dino Dogan

    Given the corporate landscape Im surprised anyone is willing to lead and most leaders dont. This issue goes to the root of feminine/masculine energies (not to be confused with male/female gender; both genders can channel both energies).

    Its fair to say that most males are more comfortable with masculine energy (energy necessary to lead) and most females are more comfortable with feminine energy (the nurturing and caring type of energy).

    To really get the sense and realness of this “energy” business start observing straight couples. You will notice (with most) a depolarization and a sort of even-ness, meet you in the middle kind of thing; which really stifles passion hence the high divorce rates in US.

    On the other end, watch gay and lesbian couples and you will notice that even tho genders are the same, one partner is channeling masculine while the other is channeling feminine energies. They “get” this energy business; but the media has brainwashed us into believing that same-ness and this equalization of genders is a good thing. Its not. Its the worst thing in the world because no one is being their true self.

    “Equalization of genders” is not to be confused with equality of genders. The first relates to our core energies while the other relates to human rights which ought to be the same for all. Alas, they are not.

    While we argue male/female gender equality issues, we are not noticing the real separation in human-rights. The separation based on wealth.

    Great post Chris and a great question. Glad I could put in my 2 cents :-)

  • http://dogandogs.com/ Dino Dogan

    Given the corporate landscape Im surprised anyone is willing to lead and most leaders dont. This issue goes to the root of feminine/masculine energies (not to be confused with male/female gender; both genders can channel both energies).

    Its fair to say that most males are more comfortable with masculine energy (energy necessary to lead) and most females are more comfortable with feminine energy (the nurturing and caring type of energy).

    To really get the sense and realness of this “energy” business start observing straight couples. You will notice (with most) a depolarization and a sort of even-ness, meet you in the middle kind of thing; which really stifles passion hence the high divorce rates in US.

    On the other end, watch gay and lesbian couples and you will notice that even tho genders are the same, one partner is channeling masculine while the other is channeling feminine energies. They “get” this energy business; but the media has brainwashed us into believing that same-ness and this equalization of genders is a good thing. Its not. Its the worst thing in the world because no one is being their true self.

    “Equalization of genders” is not to be confused with equality of genders. The first relates to our core energies while the other relates to human rights which ought to be the same for all. Alas, they are not.

    While we argue male/female gender equality issues, we are not noticing the real separation in human-rights. The separation based on wealth.

    Great post Chris and a great question. Glad I could put in my 2 cents :-)

  • http://www.hintonandco.com/blog deborah hinton

    I agree not all men or all women want to lead. And, “there's something happening here … What it is ain't exactly clear …” Not sure it's a man with a gun over there… [Thanks to Buffalo Springfield].

    Here are just a couple of quick examples that just came across my desk today. An audit of Canadian University stats for women. http://bit.ly/9yLZuu. Pretty much parity until tenure, then then the stats for women start falling off. And, last week Canadian government granted 10 Excellence Research Chairs: men 100%, women 0%.

    Is it that women just don't apply for these leadership roles? If they don't is it because they don't want to, that they don't think that they have a chance, that they're too busy with their families, other? I don't know.

    I do know that talking about it, sharing ideas and insight, that's good. Thanks Chris for creating this opportunity.

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