Bob- The Next Chapter

November 17, 2008 · Comments

Bob sign A few days ago, I wrote Shut Up! You’re Helping the Customer, the story of “Bob” (not his real name), and what happened when he decided to take social engagement into his own hands on behalf of his Fortune 500 company. Bob’s back with some more to the story, and judging by the dozens of passionate comments, I thought you’d want to hear what else Bob has to say. (This installment was actually written by Bob)

Background/History of Bob

Bob would like to comment that many of those in the original post who left comments said they are unsure if Bob had tried to get his management to embrace social media before this latest incident happened. Bob wants to go back about a year and a half ago when Bob was relocated to where he is now. Bob’s job was moved to where he lives now because his whole department was relocated. Before Bob was assigned to the current role he is in now, he worked in the company for several years doing interactive marketing and web design work.

Bob loved doing this work. So, when Bob made the hard decision to uproot his family and relocate to where his department was being moved, Bob asked management in the department he would be moving to if he would be allowed to continue to do what he loved to do. They said Yes.

Two weeks before Bob and his family moved, he was told that they decided that Bob would be moving into a group where the work would be different from what Bob had been doing and far different from what Bob had experience in. Essentially, Bob would be doing work that was foreign to him. Bob decided that change can be a good thing and to give it a shot to see if this new role would be a good thing for him.

So, Bob took on this new role and over time, all of the things that Bob loved to do and had experience in were taken from him and given to a different group in another division. This did not settle well with Bob, but he kept trying to learn his new role even though he knew it was far different from what he wanted to do. Bob saw what the tools of social media could do for his company if management would only allow Bob and others to try new things.

Bob has been trying over the last year to get management to listen to the things he has learned about social media tools, but each time Bob brings up the words “social media” he is shot down by his manager and others. They tell Bob they realize the deep passion Bob has for this area, but this area is not in Bob’s job role and he needs to give it up and let others who are allowed to look into it do the suggesting of ideas, etc.

This hurts Bob since Bob has many years of experience in the web and just wishes for an opportunity to use what he has learned over the years to help move the company into new areas of social media interactions with customers. Bob is continually rejected for his ideas/input and Bob feels frustrated and shut down. At the same time, Bob is trying to find the passion for his new role and learning all of what it entails. It is tough as his current job is not in Bob’s areas of strength and what Bob really wants to do is contribute in the areas where he could contribute the most for the company if he is only allowed to shine.

Back to Where we left off with Bob Getting Ready to Have his HR Meeting

“I had the anticipated meeting with HR a week ago. In the room was my boss, his boss, and a representative from HR. The meeting started off with my boss explaining why we were there and that he had a list of things he wanted to cover with me.

The HR representative and my manager’s boss were there to listen in to the dialogue between my boss and myself and jump in when they felt it was needed. My boss started off saying that he felt my performance has been suffering over the last year and that my behavior has been a problem. It was asked of me why I did not obey my boss’s orders to stop engaging with the customers on the forum when told to do so.

I tried explaining that I realized I needed to stop, but I also saw that these customers really wanted to be heard and felt a greater connection to our brand by talking to someone who was with the company.

However, no one could see the value or opportunities to interact with these customers. All they could see was that I disobeyed an order to stop and that what I did was outside of my main job responsibilities and the “ownership of social media” belonged to another group. Over and over, I was told I was wrong in what I did.

I will admit that Yes, not listening to my boss and his orders to stop was wrong and for that action, I apologized. I was told by my boss that he had given me several coaching tips that I had ignored. That was strike two against me. I was told that I did not follow the “chain of command” in our department and went to other managers talking to them about ideas we could use to target customers using social media tools.

I guess I was out of line in doing that. I was told I should have went to my boss first to get his permission before proceeding to speak with others. I do want to note that I had talked about my passion and experience with the web and was rejected many times by my boss. So, in one way, I know if I went to him, I would not get very far from there.

In the end, I was told that my boss and his manager felt I had caused friction between our department and the group put in charge of social media since I had continued to interact with customers. The question I have is that if it was so wrong for me to do it and when I stopped, how come the group put in charge did not continue to speak with these customers. They had a great opportunity to step in and pick up the conversations. But, they did not. The ball was dropped.

At the end of the HR meeting, my boss and our department manager looked at me and said plain as day that I needed to stop talking about and sharing ideas/input tied to any social media initiatives. It was not my area and I need to stop now or face possible termination later. After the meeting, I had to write up a recap of the meeting and basically write out what I will do and will not do. This action in itself made me feel like I was a criminal.

But, I have decided to take the route of being humble and taking whatever actions come my way. My job is secure for now, but my hope and aspirations to be in this company for the long run have taken a direct hit to be honest. I know there is a company or job opportunity out there that is waiting for me and ready for me to lead them into the social media space. I still hope it is with my current company, but if not, I am ready to move on to where I need to go to continue my career path into the exciting area of interactive marketing/social media.

My year-end review will be done soon and I anticipate that it will be a bad rating, but I still press on and know that even though I have faced so many setbacks and persecution for some of my actions, I still feel it was for all of the right reasons – helping people. Thank you for allowing me to share my story with all of you. God Bless.

Stay tuned. I imagine Bob has one more chapter for us.

Photo credit, Here in Van Nuys

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  • bob is a brave man. i've been in his position. once you're there, it never lasts. until the time is right, here's to bob.
  • I'll have to admit, with this extra information I can't help but feel Bob is more at fault than I first may have thought.

    Yes, it is great that he has his passion for social media and that he has tried to integrate that with his employers. However, it's also clear that there is already a team dealing with this area (effectively or not).

    When Bob was transferred, perhaps he wasn't invited onto the existing team (if there was one) because it was already fully-staffed. In this event, as much as he loves social media and is trying his best for the company, it's clearly not going to happen for him at this company.

    Bob's involvement should have stopped when it was made clear that another department handled this area. If the company doesn't want to engage its customers in the manner Bob would have, that's their problem, not his. And would he really want to continue fostering good relationships on behalf of a company that doesn't want to anyway?

    As much as I'll support anyone trying to raise the profile of social media in business, sometimes it's just not going to happen. Bob should have accepted this and left it be.

    If I were Bob, and unhappy as he clearly is, I'd be looking for a new company yesterday. This one isn't for him.
  • Wow, I feel really lucky to be with a company that encourages blogging, Twitter and social media in general as a way to develop better interactions with customers.

    As for Bob, I've been there. Hands slapped for blogging and all. Awful feeling.

    The great news for Bob is that there are tons of opportunities for social media experts out there. Here is a great opportunity for him to turn this into a positive and nail a killer job that loves him for doing what he loves.
  • I hate Bob's company or at least his description of it (that is more mature...) but then in general I am not a big fan of rules and squashing creativity. I'm an IBM brat and they were very good to my family for my dad's 30 plus years with them but it made me keenly aware of what you give up when your work in a corporate environment.
  • I was discussing this story with Danny Brown earlier this week. It is incredible that organisations still fail to adequately understand the necessity of the social media. Although many of these organisations do admittedly recognise the social media as a simple marketing tool, this is ridiculous. Bob was taking the right action in recognising that his organisation could offer value to the customer by creating a presence in the social media. I would be interested in seeing whether or not the organisation in question had a 'manufactured' organisational social media presence at the same time as it was condemning Bob's actions.

    TLR
  • This is so similar to my situation. Fascinating. I'm good in one area, but the corp doesn't see a need to continue financing that arm. So, I transfer across country, with my family, and try to muddle through something that is boring, old-fashioned, and unproductive.

    I think I've done my share of whining, but now I know, that for the sake of my family and job security, I just need to sit down, shut-up, and do the job they've asked me to do - especially in the current economic realities.
  • Just out of curiosity, what is prohibiting "Bob" from transferring to the other division/dept. that is "responsible" for Social Media? That may be the right answer here. Of course, given the other BS that it sounds like is happening, I know that I would have my feelers out too.

    Good Luck!
  • Shay West
    It's sad that the CUSTOMER--who pays the bills for the company--WANTS to interact with Bob. So Bob evidently has a real talent communicating with customers and prospects. Unfortunately he is being penalized by turf wars. In the end, the company may very well suffer if the customers catch any whiff of this turf war. So who ultimately loses...the company, Bob's bosses, and unfortunately Bob. Despite the fact that social media is an invaluable tool for cultivating prospects and growing customer relationships, so many companies just don't get the whole social media thing. These companies only see POTENTIAL LIABILITY of the uncontrolled written/blogged word on the Internet. Obviously these companies are first and foremost controlled by internal and external legal counsel. Perhaps these folks need to remember that legal counsel is a COST CENTER and NOT A PROFIT CENTER. It brings to mind a Wachovia mortgage person who had a great following on ActiveRain, a popular social media site for real estate-related professionals. This particular person was told to stop all social media activity or face termination. The ActiveRain community was none too happy to hear of this crud. Large companies need to understand that social media is only going to grow in scope and size, and getting left behind could be infinitely costly (especially if competitors understand, embrace, and harness the power of social media. After all, social media, in the most basic premise, is simply word-of-mouth advertising that fosters one-on-one relationships between the company and the prospect/customer. When did companies lose the desire to have a prospect's/customer's top-of-mind awareness?????????
  • AJ
    Good luck, Bob. It sucks to work for a company that has it's panties too twisted up in fear of losing control (Chain-Of-Command) that it doesn't recognize that every employee in every company is a form of outreach. When I worked for a news station, I had many opportunities to talk about what a great station I worked for -- until it was bought out by an evil, monster-corporation -- after which, I left. How naive to think that when I leave the office, my work doesn't come up in conversation and that I don't do my bit of advertising for my current company. How silly of this company to expect you to answer a customer's question in person (that's a given, right?) but not in an online environment. Maybe the reason your wink-wink-nudge-nudge "work performance was suffering" (hmmm. no-one said anything before that? suspicious) was because you had the old "bait & switch" pulled on you and despite your efforts to improve your situation, the company remains dissatisfied. Usually, I would say that the company leadership is crap and that the company itself is in very serious trouble but, oh, wait, yes, I'll say that's what this situation looks like, too.

    The company sucks and I wish you the best of luck getting out from under the dying carcass before it falls on you.
  • Bob is a textbook example of someone who is just itching to get out and do their own thing. I was at a conference with hundreds of entrepreneurs this weekend and heard so many stories of people who could never stay in a job because they shook things up too much - they wanted to actually transform the company instead of just going with the status quo. It sounds to me like Bob should go out on his own or find a company that actually values innovative thinking.
  • Some companies will never see the necessity of social media for networking and promoting of business, and those will be left behind ~ What boggles the mind is the dept that social media was assigned to ~ where are they in all this? Why is the ball being dropped? Why isn't your boss acknowledging that? I'd be looking for a company that wants what I have to offer..Keep on keeping on Bob..
  • Graham Dryden
    A farmer found a huge diamond in his field. He took it to the owner of a local coal mine who said he would swap the diamond for two sacks of coal or $20. The farmer though he could do better so he took the diamond to a bank. The banker said the diamond was worth a thousand dollars and offered to but it. The farmer still wasn't convinced so he traveled all day to the big city and showed the diamond to some diamond brokers. They got all excited and bid up the price to millions of dollars, and so the farmer sold it for a huge sum.

    The moral of the story: don't try to sell your diamond in a coal mine.

    My advice: if timid, change jobs. If bold, go out on your own: do what you love and the money will follow. Good luck Bob.
  • Bob needs to suck it up and follow the company's rules while he searches for a better opportunity where he can use his social media passion and skills. He's naiive to think that in a Fortune 500 company things wouldn't operate this way (turf battles, etc.)
  • Ugh... what an ignorance by the company.
    Very unfortunate.
    Bob, you have an ethical responsibility to go look for another job where you can pursue in your passions and skills. This company obviously doesnt get it, and when you will be there and stay there, you are required to follow their rules. That's just part of the game.

    I just hope for you that you can look beyond the Fortune 500 - charisma and look for a job with a company that admires your skills and can't get enough of it. There are soooo many companies out there. Just be brave!
  • This story is a great reminder of the workings of Fortune 500 companies, which I did earlier in my career. After owning my business for years, I realized that having many clients is the best kind of job security. Working for one company is having only one client, which is the worst kind of job security. So, Bob, you have only one client to lose if you go out on your own, and many more to gain.
  • Ed
    Maybe we should leave big business out of social media
    for now. Let the small early adopters reap the rewards.

    They'll just clog the tubes and squeeze out the
    entrepreneur anyway, right?

    Well, if a company has a Bob, and a Bob's boss
    who 'get it', they deserve the win.

    To the big and brash? Yep, you're right social,
    on the ground discussion of your business is a fad,
    nothing to see here, just move along.
    We're flakes.

    Just ask McNeil Labs.
  • I'd have to agree with Danny and some of the others... Bob has a specific job to do. If he's doing other people's jobs, he's not doing his own or following his job requirements. Unfortunately for Bob, that's grounds for being sacked.

    I've been in Bob's situation before - and after I talked to management many times (and they didn't listen) ... I found another job. I didn't do what Bob did, and basically work hard at being fired.

    Just sayin... Bob should dust off that resume.
  • Good luck Bob. :) This is a very extreme example, but I feel you might be a bit of a renegade...so remember in "Gladiator" when Maximus had to fight at the Colesium as a slave/prisoner?

    He had to tow the line and suck it up, as a hero waiting for his time. He didn't want to do what the boss man said, but he did it, because he knew his better days were coming. Then remember when he was able to rise above it and take over?

    Don't do that. But just put in your 40 hours a week and do what they say until you find another job that appreciates you and your ideas. Just direct your bravery in finding a better job!
  • I mean -- Bob, you are your greatest cause, not social media. You need to take care of yourself first. OK -- Have a great day!
  • Wow, it's crazy to me that one company would do this, and reading everyone's "me too" comments is even crazier! In Chile there is very much still a culture of hierarchy and little internet use. I have had conversations with people where I say "use our website, you will get more clients for free, and they will like you because you're going to them," and the person on the other end of the phone says "no, I couldn't do that, the owner of the company is away until next month, and I can't make a decision like that on my own." Some still don't seem to realize that having a presence online is just like handing out your business card at a social event - relating yourself to your company, which people like! Thank goodness for the companies and employees that do get it.
  • NancyS
    Appears to be a turf war issue. Too bad for your company not opening the door to a wider audience. In the meantime, share your knowledge with organizations/groups that could prosper from your knowledge. Add that to your resume and go job shopping. Good luck.
  • Ed
    @Everyone

    Why can't Bob do both?
    Why can't all employees, who take ownership of the brand,
    (or mothership), share and engage like it's their own.

    You know what?! It's WHAT'S ABOUT TO BE.
    The world is massive now. Yet more connected than ever.
    That defies the physics of communication, but it's real.

    The employees who really love their brand,
    who naturally reach out and share their gig because
    of a corporate culture that inspires that,
    will be rewarded!
    Why? Because the companies with that culture are
    going to be the ones that SURVIVE and THRIVE!!

    {You may see some managers, suits, actually ORDERING
    unhappy employees to shine the company brass
    out in social media, but the real will prevail. Unemployment will drop again at some point,
    and some workers will tell their bosses to
    "take this job and shove it, or digg it yourself, Dick.
    My community will be burying you for years".}

    The social media revolution isn't a fad.
    What the young who affect it the most, understand least
    is that the older generations are WITH you!
    They had NO voice when the big brand f*cked them!

    I'm a capitalist through and through.
    But the whoring by big business you're seeing
    clearly for it's distilled state, on Wall St right now,
    is a culture which has permeated society for too long.

    Our ability to communicate in business, from within business (Bob), about business (everyone),
    changes EVERYTHING.

    Trust agents are going to point their Tribes
    somewhere. And the members of the tribe all have voices.

    The corp's that think the eyes and ears
    out there don't matter, that only the wallet tagging along
    with them does, are doomed.
  • I am always in favor of customer service and customer interaction, but I also understand that corporations have policies and procedures that must be adhered to if you want to continue to depend on them for your income. That's why I left the corporate world to build something for myself.
  • Hey manager, how do your words sound to your constituent - in this case Bob? Yes, Bob is your constituent. You facilitate his work. He doesn't work for you. Hey HR weenie, are you listening to what the manager is saying? Do you condone creating a disgruntled employee?

    Very typical of a company that does not facilitate an environment of brilliance and innovation.

    Bob can use his brilliance to shift the environment, or find another environment. Unfortunately, the grass is not always greener but Bob will have a better test to apply in the search process.
  • Bob is a more generous person than I am. Why doesn't Bob's company see him as the loyal brand evangelist that he is? It seems Bob has all but begged to be allowed to use his talents and interests for the good of his company yet they are so hidebound they can't or won't see what an asset they have in this employee. Customers don't want to be shouted at anymore. They are insisting on creating conversation and to gag the corporate mouthpiece that is willing to interact with them is horribly short-sighted and just plain dumb. Good luck, Bob. I wish I could hire you!
  • @ Ed. The reason Bob (and others) can't "take ownership of the brand" is because it's not Bob's to take ownership of. The brand is the tenet of the company - Bob, unfortunately, is only the voice of the brand if the brand wants him to be.

    And I say this as a huge advocate of social media PR who is constantly introducing my clients to all social media has to offer. But having seen this second post from Chris, and more info on Bob's details, I still maintain that Bob has essentially disobeyed his bosses.

    That's called insubordination no matter how prettily you want to dress it up.

    Bob needs to move on, find another company or even start out on his own as a social media consultant - he obviously has the passion, now he just needs the product.
  • There are so many strikes against this company from the beginning. Changing his job description two weeks before he moves to a new location. Taking him from his area of expertise and put into another area are two issues that should have thrown up red flags immediately. I just think this company will not survive long with this kind of attitude. Bob knows all of us, he can find himself another opportunity. Now is the time and he has the passion. Strap it on Bob and find a new place to work with people, not for people.
  • The situation is the same whether told second hand or first hand by "Bob."

    Regardless of what this community wishes, Bob does not own the company. He WORKS FOR this company and, sadly, must follow their rules.

    Cynically, I sense Bob is not as talented as he would like us to believe (he IS trolling for a sympathizer to give him a job, you know.). If he were so self assured and talented, he'd have told his boss to shove it and leave for greener pastures. Yet he is doing what most here feel is the un-THINKABLE: get his butt whipped, put in his place and back to his cubicle. Based on what Bob has written, I'm not sure would hire him. I am sure, in the end, he'll also end up with a negative reference from this company.
  • @Matt Secoske: is it possible that the other manager from Part I of this story is the social media manager? Although I find it weird that here in Part II, Bob describes social media being a responsibility of another group, when it's never mentioned that anyone but Bob does any type of social media work.

    There's no mention of any attempts on Bob's part to join that group, and if it had been attempted no mention of blocking him from joining that area.

    Perhaps Bob needs to talk to a good friend, and possibly start his own social media consulting agency. The friend is of course the contact and face of the agency. The people in charge of social media must have some knowledge of what's going on, and can't handle this outsider to their group having a positive effect on their responsibilities. When XYZ Social Media Agency (Bob's friend) contacts the group as an expert in the field, they take the call, because they realize they should probably do something. Besides large corporations often seem to value the opinions of outside agencies who don't understand their business as well as the people in house, and also find their exceptionally large invoice as validation for the advice they receive.

    Why get the help in-house when an outsider can do it for more?

    There's some cynicism here, but I've seen it a few times before where outside consultant always equals expert.

    Is this a bit sneaky? Maybe. But could the company get the results it needs? Certainly. Is this completely outside the realm of possibility? I don't think so.
  • Bob, please do yourself a favor and find a job where you can do what you love and are good at and can be compensated and appreciated for it. Sounds to me like BOTH Bob and his company are making mistakes here and BOTH are losing.

    There are three ways to deal with what we see as stupid rules - follow them anyway, break them or fight to change them. Sometimes breaking them actually works. Here it did not - you stepped on a landmine. To keep stepping on that landmine is a sure way to get fired rather than heard. There is no way you will be heard now because in their minds you can't be trusted. That is truly unfortunate.

    On another note, I consult to companies who want to cause change in their organizations. When the leaders of a company are interested in change and are asking to hear and see their blind spots, there are not a lot of Bob's out there willing to challenge the status quo and go out on a limb. I wish there were more people like Bob in my client's companies.
  • While I haven't had the same sort of consequences as Bob, I can certainly understand having enthusiasm mistaken for a discipline problem. I'm now in the department that better matches my enthusiasm, which has improved my situation, but the stigma is still there that people see me as a troublemaker. Bob, I feel your pain and hope you can find a good fit for yourself, whether it be in your current position or perhaps somewhere else in the future.
  • Bob's in a tough situation. His relationship with his boss appears to be in shambles and I doubt it can be mended. The boss doesn't want to listen to Bob's ideas and has cut off lines of communication with other areas of the company.

    Bob must be miserable and I think it's probably time for him to finding another company where he'd make a better fit.

    John P. Kreiss
    MorganSullivan, Inc.
    business Solutions in Real Estate and Construction
  • Do we know the time-span of this story? How long has Bob been dealing with this?
  • I hope Bob will be able to find a job where he can follow his heart. That is the true meaning of prosperity -- not just money in the bank to support himself and his family, but being able to really do what you love and are really good at. It's obvious he's not the right fit.

    I was recently hired by a company to engage social media. Obviously, some companies are getting it and others not.
  • Sure Bob didn't follow the rules. And he's paying the price for not following them.

    But they're dumb rules.

    Social media engagement should not fall on a "group' tasked to do it - it should fall to anyone who has the passion to help people. Companies should realize that they are their best PR. If I love my company and I engage in social media I'll create more and more passion and 'free' or close to free word of mouth for my company.

    Let the group have their 'social media engagement' but let Bob do his thing too.

    Sounds like it's time for someone to step up and give Bob a better job.
  • @ Tbaz. While in theory your idea would be perfect, I feel it would cause more problems. What if the two departments (Bob and the social media group) contradicted each other? That would cause even more problems.

    And going by this story, I would think that it's clear Bob's ideas and the company's are two different things - therefore making an impasse before two different social media "attacks" can be launched.
  • In concpet I agree with you wholeheartedly that "Social media engagement should not fall on a “group’ tasked to do it - it should fall to anyone who has the passion to help people. Companies should realize that they are their best PR."

    What I am not clear about are what are the real risks to a company in the matter? There seems to be a paradox - social media is not something to control and that is part of what makes it so amazing, yet aren't companies at risk from what their employees do with or without their permission on behalf of the company? So where's the line between a company just being uptight and not getting it and being responsbile for risks they may not fully comprehend? I don't think more company rules and regulations (and muzzles!) are the answer mind you, but I don't think the risks can be ignored.
  • It's sad how many commenters have had similar experiences, but many have moved on, and I hope Bob does the same.

    I've never worked for anyone else in my career, and I always picture the bosses from Office Space and Fight Club when I hear stories like Bob's. It turns out the reality might be worse.
  • Reading the whole history of this, tells me that Bob works for a company that isn't interested in listening to it's employees. In fact, the company appears to not care about it's employees at all. I wonder what their turn over rate is. It's sad that they aren't really paying any attention to who is working for them or the possible creative assets the companies can tap into. Old style management is on it's way out and even large corporations have the ability to change with the times. Fortune 500 companies just take longer to die. As for connecting with your customers on line, I don't see how it's any different than the face to face conversations many people have with others in day to day life. Companies surely have no real control over what their employees say to potential customers at social gatherings, on the golf course, or in their own neighborhood. Why try to control it on line?
  • Dear "Bob,"

    I'm sorry to hear that your boss does not value his most valuable assets: his employees.

    I'm sorry to hear that your company does not allow its employees to innovate or be entrepreneurial.

    I'm sorry to hear that due to your passion your yearly review won't look good.

    It is my sincere hope that you will be able to find a job for a company that wants to engage its customers.

    I hope you will find a job with boss who appreciates the passion, creativity, and innovation you bring to a team.

    I wouldn't want to work for a company that doesn't recognize the value of its employees.

    Best wishes to you, and to all of the other readers who may find themselves in similar circumstances.
  • And we wonder why American big business is in such a shambles? Innovations in how to do business, how to connect with the customer and other forward-thinking methodology are so feared here and that is how we end up with banks and car companies -- among others -- tanking. So while we follow the chain of command and take no risks and play by all the rules...we watch our large corporations go down the global tubes (unless we bail them all out, of course.)
  • Ed
    @Danny Brown.

    I did NOT say "take control of..."
    I said ownership.

    You know what I mean.
    We've all seen the companies that treat their
    employees well, who produce things that the staff isn't
    ashamed to admit to working on.

    I had a shop I ran like a very tight ship.
    So I wasn't always sure how employees spoke about me
    when they went out together, or about the shop.

    But one customer after the other told me that they
    were there because Sally, or Joe, or ...,
    had told them great things.
    And I received "Boss of the Year" 9 times WHILE pushing this crew.
    They actually marketed, by word of mouth,
    because they were treated like team mates.

    How about running a business that your employees
    can get behind and talk about?
    If they're ONLY being positive,
    NO ONE will trust them anyway!
    The walls are gone forever.

    Better to embrace it and fix what's going on inside.
    The tight job market won't be here forever.
    Everyone will have a voice.
    Why even WANT to put the genie back in the bottle,
    or shut Bob up? Why?
    That company deserves the beating they're going to take.
  • @ Ed. Yes, I know you said "ownership" which is why I quoted you on it.

    Either way you look at it, though, the brand is still not Bob's to take ownership of. And as I said, I say this as the owner of a company that embraces and promotes social media as a key business relationship tool.

    Yet we haven't heard the company's side of it, either.

    * What are the reasons for them not wishing to have Bob on board their social media team?

    * Is it a local decision or one taken higher up the food chain at HQ level?

    * Why is there a disparate message between the one Bob wants to promote and that of the company?

    At the end of the day, as much as I applaud Bob for wanting to engage the customers of the company, it has been made clear that this is no longer his role. Perhaps Bob's approach hadn't been to the company's liking, or views of how they wanted to be represented?

    Remember, once something is online and in the open it is pretty much guaranteed an immortal life. And as the Motrin fiasco proved over the weekend on Twitter, get a company message wrong and your brand will suffer the consequences.

    This is why the "ownership" is not Bob's to take - he has to stick to a corporate message, in a certain style, when dealing with the public. While the message may be wrong and the approach questionable, that's the company's decision to make. And if that decision means Bob no longer engaging the customers, so be it - even if the company is making an error in judgment.
  • @ Mary Wehrle

    Aside from the obvious "company's time, company's computer", it probably takes on a more "official" stance and if Bob were to represent something which is counter to what his employer (key phrase) wishes to convey, he needs to stop. When you are an employee at will (which I would bet Bob is), you lose your vote. You accept your paycheck, you do as asked. It's quite simple.

    Now, on the question of the validity of the company's position, I totally agree they might benefit from being more open to various marketing approaches. Bottom line, the company makes their bed, and they must sleep in it. If the company isn't contemporary they will suffer in the end. If they choose to ignore Bob, sure, feel sorry for him but don't canonize him.
  • Natalie
    This is typical corporate political BS! Seems to me it's become less about social media and more about a power battle between Bob and his boss.
    Been there, done that. Yuk.
  • As a former corporate "HR weenie," I read this portion of the story cringing at the HR role. (And asking Bob to document the meeting? Ouch. That sounds like seriously bad HR.)

    But, as a former corporate "HR weenie," I've been in the role where someone thought they were being unfairly treated but ignored several discussions leading up to the 'big meeting.' (To use a fairly simple example, if a guy has attendance issues and is spoken to and then has the 'official meeting' -- but continues to have attendance issues -- there's only so much an HR weenie can do.) So I would wonder what the social media group and Bob's boss had to say about the situation.

    It's admirable that Bob is passionate about his company and about social media. But unless he's responsible for corporate messaging and follows customer service protocol, he shouldn't do it. There are plenty of examples of companies who are "doing it wrong"....in social media and other areas. But unfortunately, most corporations value 'towing the company line' above passion and engagement in an employee.

    It doesn't sound like this company is a good place for Bob to be. (As one who 'got out' myself, I agree with all those who wrote here that it's possible that Bob may want to look into starting his own business -- or finding a smaller company where he'd have more latitude in these sorts of areas.)

    All the best!
    deb
  • Company's fail to notice those special people within an organization that really get what it means to build relationships with customers and the benefit of that (advocates). I've seen this before in a similar form but where a person (great worker) was let go due to company issues, but this person was looked at as the heart and soul of the company and an empowering, positive voice for the internal customers (the employees).

    Company advocates - those employees who want to be at the forefront, talking, listening and making customers into evangelists, don't necessarily have to be in social media or marketing at all. It's a big misconception amongst many companies that ends up in an opportunity lost.
  • Mary Lopez
    Seems Bob was a bit out of bounds, but the main problem it would seem is that he is a square peg trying to fit in a round hole. Even if he stops what he is doing now, he will probably still have problems with his boss. And, he isn't really happy. So, chalk it up to experience and try to move on, because if Bob sticks around things will probably only get worse and he'll be even more miserable. Oh, and it sounds to me like he's scared to move, which I can understand. But fear doesn't get you anywhere and life is too short.
  • Wow, I feel a lot of parallels to the situation Bob happens to be in; except for the fact that my company doesn't have anyone focusing on social media. When I approached my boss with an interest in introducing the concepts to the company, the response I received was that "all that web 2.0 stuff will just be outsourced". Doh!

    Good luck Bob, I feel your pain and have also been moved to a position that does not utilize my talents yet I am trying to give it my best and learn new skills.
  • Wow. A question and a comment arise.

    Question: Bob, now that you are no longer interacting with these customers, what are they saying? Do you even know? Are you monitoring the forum even if you're not responding? Are they wondering why you're not responding? Can you elaborate?

    Comment: The fact you were in this meeting with your manager, your manager's manager, and someone from HR implies to me that executive management does not want to interact with customers. Maybe they don't understand the importance. Maybe they think as long as they sell products there is no problem. Maybe they equate "social media" with "media" and distrust the press.

    A lot of maybes.

    I await the next post.
  • Ed
    @Danny I agree you can't have renegades, divergent messages and self appointed town criers.

    But the corporate culture has to change now.

    It was a year ago we saw people fired because of their Facebook posts.

    People are going to talk.
    Insubordination or not (and I respect military authority),
    they're going to talk.
    Might as well be on the same page, with good
    communication in-house, so what the neighbors
    hear sounds good when it makes through the grocery store.
    And thank you for thoughtful discourse
    :)
  • Mark
    I found this post on Marketing Profs to be similar to what Bob must have been trying to do: http://www.mpdailyfix.com/2008/11/the_social_me....

    In a way, Bob is trying to be that social media spokesperson for his company and even though he is laying low now due to having his hand slapped, I hope the company he works at and those around him recognize that they have a true spokesperson on their team who could represent them well in the social media space. Yes, guidelines should be put in place, but after these are established, let Bob go back out there and continue off from what he did. Put Bob in a position that allows him to use his skills and know-how in social media/web vs. where he is now. Go Bob!
  • @Danny thanks for taking on this argument. You've obviously run a business or two. I have added you to blog feed.
  • @Ari H: I think it was indicated in Bob's post that there WAS a social media group within the company. Could it possibly be that the company just doesn't want BOB to be interacting? There seems to be so much judgment being passed on the company because everyone assumes it is the evil empire. If you take the time, you can deduce from the sketchy facts that: a) The company warned Bob b) Bob continued to "champion" the social media cause within the company after the warning c) the company was more or less forced to have a formal review of his behavior and d) Bob doesn't have the courage to quit and pursue his dream.

    What I have heard here is:
    The company MUST CHANGE. Why? Let them do what they think is best for their company and suffer or benefit from their decisions. I think that is the way the commerce system is supposed to work. I hear a bunch of social-madia advocates who are sympathizing with Bob who might actually have a flaw because they believe even bad social media interaction with customers is better than none. That is a bad approach.

    Bottom line: we all agree social media is a good thing but, at this moment in time, it's not for everyone. If it is here to stay, it will.

    Just don't judge either Bob or the company based on the thumbnail sketch we have.

    At the end of the day, it's a fun exercise.
  • Bob find a new job. A place like the one your at, at least how it sounds, will wreck you. Suck out the good ideas and passion. Go somewhere your valued.
  • Perhaps Bob might contact McNeil Pharmaceuticals.
    WAIT!!!!
    Is Bob really a real person?
    Chris Brogan, you funny guy, you!
    Brilliant!
  • Ed
    "Historically, companies have been really focused on controlling the information they disseminate ... and the fact is that's dying, because accessibility and communication have so dramatically increased and improved."
    ~DaveTaylor via Reuters
  • Ugh, that's a sad story! I can't believe that they wouldn't allow him to engage with customers, or move him back/to a position where he could do this. Bob is a brave soul though!
  • Bob:

    You've got to leave. Not just because this company is not in tune with your spirit. Even if you could live with that, your head is on the block. Your days there are numbered.

    Start looking. Look for a place that you don't feel is stifling you. It's such a bad feeling to have ideas with no willing audience.
  • Was it a bad choice for Bob to keep interacting with customers after being explicitly told not to? Yes. But what is more telling is that it doesn't appear that the company had any interest in at least handing off these new interactions to their "social media group." Very sad.

    Equate that action to this: A customer calls up the company. An employee picks up the phone and says, "can I help you?". The customer explains the reason for the call and is glad there was someone there ready to engage with. At this point, the employee is told not to say anything more. The employee simply stops talking mid-call, or at worst, completely hangs up on the customer.

    Would YOU do this to a customer? Would you pick up the phone and say nothing? Would you hang up on them? Would you also walk away from a face-to-face conversation?

    In the very least, I would have liked to see some sort of effort on the part of this company to complete these "calls", no matter if Bob was involved or not. Not doing so speaks volumes in itself.
  • @Ed great points - letting the conversation just stop is like hanging up on a customer. Wondering whether the Social Media group in this company even knows what happened with Bob and if so were they empowered to pick up on the conversations Bob was in.
  • @Ed If you READ BOB's ESSAY, the company HAS a social media group. One could deduce that he was to give his notes over to them. Don't be so quick to judge the company. Pay attention and listen to the WHOLE story.
  • I see a whole lot of judging going on - of both Bob and his company. Some have taken sides and some see both sides. But are we learning anything? Or are we just reinforcing what we already believe about companies or about the Bob's of the world?

    I am VERY new to the world of social media. When I am engaging with the people in this world I feel like a total dinosaur. But when I talk with most of my friends and clients I feel like I am on the leading edge. Just because an individual or a company hasn't learned how to leverage the opportunity of Social Media doesn't mean they are closed minded or stupid or even that they aren't out there trying to learn and come up with a strategy. If you want people to learn, understand their world first so you can teach them.

    Some will move fast and some will move slow. In the end it is their choice and they will reap the rewards or pay the consequences. But just because you move fast doesn't mean there are only rewards - there could be serious consequences for companies that none of us can anticipate if they get it really wrong. Seems to me that mistakes in a world where information moves this fast can be fatal.

    What am I learning? That if we strip away all the tools we still have the same human dynamics to contend with. It gives me an understanding of some of the issues I need to address as I exlpore ways to bring the tools of the social media into the workplace. I am more convinced than ever that the solutions to the corporate communications breakdown (inside and out) lie in learning to empower people to communicate more and control their communication less.

    What are you learning?
  • Good post @Susan.
    What I have learned is that those in favor of social media initiatives simply cannot fathom that someone might not choose to adopt the tools now and dismiss any reasons why.

    In this group, the folks who are not sympathizing with Bob are the folks who have real life experience working in a similar environment (probably most of corporate American at the moment) but can see that there is a need for change without damning the company.

    The real details of this situation are not fully know. Bob could be a genius or he could be a royal pain in the ass for the management. We simply don't know. But defending hime SOLELY because he agrees with your is not right. Sounds like partisan politics and you see where that is getting us at the moment.

    I have also learned that we all have a lot to say. Even if we are saying the same thing someone else has said, we NEED to say it anyway.

    Roger. Wilko. Over and out....
  • Um, I've also learned that it would be nice to be able to edit comments to correct the errors after posting. Sorry!!
  • Mark
    I know Bob. He is not a royal pain in the rear. All he wants to do is help customers.
  • @Mark That may be true but he wants to do it his way, not the way his company pays him to do it. If you know him, be a friend and help him look for a new job.
  • Mark
    Saw this video presentation where Frank from Comcast talked about how his company are restructuring their customer service strategy to include dialogue with their customers through digital channels like Twitter, etc. Maybe that is what Bob's company needs to do with the "group" in charge of social media. Hoping they are paying attention to other companies who GET what it means to connect with your customers and help them.

    http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/864110
  • I was interested in wanting to know the outcome, if the Fortune 500 company ever woke up about social media.

    Of course they did not....

    As for Bob, Chris he may be your friend, however he needed to cowboy up and find another position before he uprooted his family.

    If he was really that good the other units did not want his talent?

    Was this story even real, with the names changed of course, just to make a point that Fortune 500s have not dipped their toe in the water of social media marketing?

    I know these corporate guys know that no one ever got fired for advertising on CNN, ABC, USA Today etc etc.
  • 1) If I was brand manager of Bob's Big Boy, I'd be pissed that a photo with our logo was used for this story if it didn't involve that restaurant. It's a negative story about a real guy who's name is not Bob. If I was Bob's Big Boy I'd give Brogan a little shot, Like hey Chris, what did Bob's Big Boy do to deserve this? and give his readers a gift certificate to Bob's Big Boy restaurants. Hey times are tough just looking for a little free lunch is all. :)

    Personally I would have used an image from the movie What About Bob, why? because the Bill Murray character sounds more like our Bob character. http://culld.us/l3497542

    2) Bob,Big Fella, it's not the right fit, if you are trying to get the company to follow you, then you need some consensus building skills. But I think you are right, a) your days are numbered, better get busy livin or get busy dyin' to borrow a line from another great flick. Follow your passion, go where you are appreciated, it's a most healthy place for you to be.

    3) I also hate to tell you this, but I suggest you also set social media adoption by that company back at least 6 months to a year. You've poisoned the well and given the description of the company, no one who has an ounce of self preservation will touch the issue of social media.
  • This is why working in a big corporation can suck!

    My advice to Bob? Quit. Go work at a small agency where chain of commands aren't so militant and where good ideas are embraced!
  • stevenmilstein
    Bob, if you haven't yet, go read Seth Godin's Tribes http://sethgodin.com/sg/. If you have read it, then it appears to me that already have your own tribe waiting for someone to lead them. So instead of waiting for the inevitable poor evaluation, or, your employer licking their chops just itching to fire another employee, I would take you're social media show outside the corporation and be the voice for that tribe. Do that, and my guess is your soon-to-be ex-employer will soon be a listener - either before, or, after the competition.
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