December 28, 2009 147 Comments

The Old Value-Cost Conversation

I’m an affiliate for the Beyond Blogging ebook. In the comments section of this post, people questioned the $47 cost of the ebook (which I think goes up to $97 after a fashion). It’s a question I’ve seen many times, and the question works something like this:

There’s no paper expenses. There’s no mailing costs. Why does this cost more than a traditional paper book?

First, let’s take free off the table. I covered that in the audacity of free. So, given that we believe there’s some value in what’s being sold, let’s talk about how pricing works OVERALL.

Pricing comes from these factors: perceived value, market value, product/brand recognition, and probably several factors I’m not at liberty to explain. Nathan Hangen and Mike Cliffe Jones priced Beyond Blogging to be in the middle pricing of most ebooks I’ve seen. I’ve paid everywhere from $9 to $150 for ebooks, depending on what I thought I’d learn from them.

In my mind, when I paid $150 for the ebook I bought (about product launches), it’s because I knew that if I learned what was in the ebook, I’d stand to make more than $150 back if I was able to incorporate what I learned.

That’s the real question to ask when presented with a price: is paying this going to earn me back that much or more value?

For instance, I buy videos. I just got Iron Man’s Armored Adventures, season 1, for $19.95. I have to decide if that’s worth however many hours of enjoyment I’ll get from it. The real answer is probably no, so maybe that was a bad purchase.

No one forces you to buy things. Instead, they recommend things they think will be of value. When I agree to be an affiliate for a product, such as the Thesis WordPress Theme, it’s because I believe it’s valuable, and I want you to consider it for your projects and growth.

I’m promoting Beyond Blogging because I believe there’s much more than $47 worth of information in there. For instance, that’s several hundred times less than it would cost you to pick my brain for a day, and I’m only one of the 15 people interviewed. It’s at least 3x less than an online course of similar content.

So, it’s all in how you slice it. I buy things that help me grow my business. Where do you put your money?

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http://LisaMorosky.com Lisa Morosky

I guess I don't understand how you make someone buy something. A good marketing effort, which focuses on persuasion of those in the target market, is just that…good marketing. And if good marketing is considered predatory, well then I think we have a lot of predators out there.

I actually think Nathan and Mike relied a lot on word of mouth. And it appears to have worked out, considering the large amount of positive responses and the huge number of people who are evangelizing on their behalf.

But the bottomline is: you're not their target market. So you're not going to buy it. Simple as that, in my mind.
http://www.mikeslife.org Mike CJ

I guess I said what I wanted to say in the reply below, but I had to come back to this in Nathan's defence.

He's full time in the US military, and returned from a tour of duty in Afghanistan earlier this year.

He does all his blogging, and did all his writing for the book outside of normal working hours – late into the evenings, and up at 5AM every day – partly so he can communicate with me, as I live in Europe.

He's about as far removed from the four hour work week as anyone you could ever hope to meet. But like you said, you don't know us.
christinakatz

I don't want to take Chris' blog hostage either. I also apologize for the four-hour workweek remark. That was overboard. My intention was to express a perspective that is not necessarily in line with the status quo here. I've expressed it. I'll chew on the rest. Even if the folks who get the book like it, I wish, as one person's opinion, that it could have been presented differently. In fact, if it had, I likely would have purchased it. That's it. That's all I wanted to express.
http://www.mikeslife.org Mike CJ

Thanks Christina. I respect your opinion and the eloquence with which you've expressed it.

God! I'm sounding like this is my blog! We need to get off here. See you on Twitter. :)
http://chrisbrogan.com Chris Brogan

I think the comments section will seesaw between you, Anna, and those who aren't the target audience. And you're right, the word “ebook” can really swing back and forth between values.
http://www.BeyondThePedway.com Tim Jahn

That's a great point, Laura. I do think people are almost always (at least for now) wonder why e-books cost more than a few bucks, because material wise they cost absolutely nothing.

But I also think that people understand (at least to an extent) that the knowledge in the e-book and the time spent researching/etc. for the e-book is not free.
http://www.BeyondThePedway.com Tim Jahn

Good way to think about it.

Out of curiosity, what exactly do you send hundreds of dollars a month on for your education?
MichaelCantone

The content is great and I have to admit I would never invested if it was not for CB. I was kind of pissed when I was sucked into that guidebook squeeze page before reading any of Beyond-Blogging. Way too tacky for me. But Really love the content so far.
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thesocial1

I'm with you, Remarkablogger. Any product we encounter can be perceived as an additional cost or investment.

I was talking to a friend about all of the classes I am taking to gain knowledge for my business, and the first question asked was, “Are they free?” No education is ever free. You are either going to invest time, money or both. But as you said, the money you spend in education is nothing compared to the rewards you reap.
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Anonymous

An engaging discussion. Even for those in the target audience, which does include me, at least one of the key issues simply comes down to presentation.* Simply being up-front with price helps readers ‘calibrate’ how they will assess the value proposition. The first time ’47′ is mentioned is half-way through a very long page. Why not right up front?* Trust – plenty on this already. Until the book came out, I’d not really been aware of the authors, and it’s on Chris’ reputation I give it serious attention.* Get it done in one page (well, ‘maybe’ two). If you cannot get the basic value proposition across in one page you’ve not thought it through well enough. Use David’s Jane’s Fighting Ships reference. A $965 book, only uses about 1.5 pages of product-specific messaging on Amazon or Barnes & Noble.Note: David – You might’ve gotten ripped. It’s at B&N for 868.50 if you’re a member:).At the end of the day, if the entire pitch were around 1,000 characters (instead of ~15K), pitched the value and price cleanly, this whole discussion likely wouldn’t have occurred.Your target audience -will- get it in just a page. Blowing it out to a dozen pages can be perceived as over-selling or condescending.All this said, I hope I do so well as to generate a buzz the day I sell ‘my’ first ebook.

http://nathanhangen.com/blog Nathan Hangen

Thanks for giving your perspective, we’ll do our best to try and meet everyone’s needs, but it’s not an easy proposition.

I’m curious, did you buy the book?

Anonymous

An engaging discussion. Even for those in the target audience, which does include me, at least one of the key issues simply comes down to presentation.* Simply being up-front with price helps readers ‘calibrate’ how they will assess the value proposition. The first time ’47′ is mentioned is half-way through a very long page. Why not right up front?* Trust – plenty on this already. Until the book came out, I’d not really been aware of the authors, and it’s on Chris’ reputation I give it serious attention.* Get it done in one page (well, ‘maybe’ two). If you cannot get the basic value proposition across in one page you’ve not thought it through well enough. Use David’s Jane’s Fighting Ships reference. A $965 book, only uses about 1.5 pages of product-specific messaging on Amazon or Barnes & Noble.Note: David – You might’ve gotten ripped. It’s at B&N for 868.50 if you’re a member:).At the end of the day, if the entire pitch were around 1,000 characters (instead of ~15K), pitched the value and price cleanly, this whole discussion likely wouldn’t have occurred.Your target audience -will- get it in just a page. Blowing it out to a dozen pages can be perceived as over-selling or condescending.All this said, I hope I do so well as to generate a buzz the day I sell ‘my’ first ebook.
http://erica.biz ericabiz

$10 is about the worst price out there. Either you want to price it at $8-$9 (one digit appears to be a lower price in people's minds) or you want to price it at $17 (most of us make the same decision at $10 as we would at $17.)

$10 also doesn't give you a lot of room for affiliates.

This all comes from reading a lot of psychology books and understanding price points.

-Erica
http://erica.biz ericabiz

If people are complaining about price, it's typically because the sales letter and/or blog posts promoting the product didn't overcome the potential buyers' objections.

The sales letter for this product doesn't clearly state the benefits. So of course people are going to fall back on “well, it's a digital thing and I've seen many digital things offered for free, so $47 is ridiculous.”

This could be studied as a textbook example of how mediocre copywriting can really kill your sales.

-Erica
http://lifestyledesignforyou.com/ FlashyKiwi

I’ve read Beyond Blogging; I’ve seen the sales page; I know Mike and Nathan. I think they’ve done a great job. Word of mouth has worked well for them. If these guys become A-listers because of this book, how will all the people who have attacked them feel? Sorry or resentful? Time will tell I guess.

Happy New Year everybody!
http://lifestyledesignforyou.com Gordie

David Risley also speaks very highly of 1shoppingcart.
http://nathanhangen.com/blog Nathan Hangen

Which is exactly why we went with a longer sales page. Of course, if that copy doesn't work, then it doesn't matter, but I wouldn't say that anything was killed :)
http://nathanhangen.com/blog Nathan Hangen

You're right, but something tells me Chris doesn't need affiliates for this.
http://nathanhangen.com/blog Nathan Hangen

I mentioned it on my blog, but we didn't mean for that to happen. Of course, that's not going to fix it, but it is what it is. Do your best and move on, right?
jetsetcitizen

Amazing discussion in the comments!

I think we all understand that there is value in specialized and actionable content. Corporate white papers can go for thousands of dollars, so why can't an ebook sell for $47?

The problem is that many ebooks, particularly in the make money online niche, do not cover industry specific information. They are often selling dreams to gullible buyers.

I am not making any judgments on Beyond Blogging. I haven't read the book and my single connection with Mike was completely positive. However, I recently listened to a popular and successful marketing podcast where the speakers joked about how effective copy writing is, especially when aimed at Florida based retirees who have trouble finding the on-button to their computers. They were essentially proud that they were taking advantage of people who had little ability to implement the marketing ideas.

A lot of online marketing seems to to geared towards making the sale no matter what. I have never once read anything about the percentage of successes from purchasers. How many readers of Beyond Blogging will become A-list bloggers? Probably close to zero. Would Chris Brogan promote the book without monetary interest? I don't know but I am certain the total promotion would be less.

I do find it an interesting dynamic that all the top bloggers begin to promote each others products for a commission.

I am not saying that it is bad to promote products for profit, but motives should be questioned. What is really interesting to me is that free is not the best price. Few people will recommend free products. You have to charge and give a generous affiliate commission in order to get positive reviews. $47 seems to be the perfect price for online products of this nature.
jtpedersen

Hello Nathan,

No. I expect to after I work through the books in my stack/reader right now.

:)
JT…
jtpedersen

Uh, not necessarily. In most cases doing so violates copyright protections. Some print shops will ask you for proof you have the right/permission to make a copy.

Consider this excerpt from an ebook I just bought:
“…you have been granted…right to access and read the text of this e-book on-screen. No part of this text may be reproduced…in any form…”

You will also find an increasing number of ebooks specifically have the print function (e.g. for PDFs) specifically disabled.

Want paper, buy paper; want ebook, buy ebook.
http://nathanhangen.com/blog Nathan Hangen

Well, I'll say it here – feel free to print it out, whatever helps you read/enjoy it most.

We'll add that in the future, thanks for the prod :)
http://www.davideckoff.com davideckoff

Hey Chris and Nathan, some thoughts on this:

* I really like the concept for this e-book – and a lot of the bloggers involved in it. I think I could learn a lot from it!

* Having said that, I strongly agree with @christinakatz about the presentation of the sales page: it is a big turn off for me. Looks and feels like a direct marketing sales pitch from a time share company. Even with Chris personally endorsing the product, the sales page makes me want to run away – fast.

* Nathan, an idea: it would be a fascinating experiment if you were to crowd source some ideas on how to improve the sales page, and do an A/B test or multivariate testing (using Google Website Optimizer or other tool) and see which sales pages perform better. There's nothing more beautiful than data-driven decision making – and nothing better than a loop where your customers are directly involved in the process.

* This is a well timed case study for how important it is to have some say in the marketing materials when your personal brand is part of the product. This week a university is creating an online sales page for a business seminar I'll be teaching in March. Rather than leave it to the university to decide how they present the sales page (like I was going to do), I'm going to be a lot more active in the process and also enlist help and input from potential class members.

* Chris, an idea for your upcoming $10 project: consider labeling it something different than an “e-book”, which brings to mind something that is “throw away” or “free” or “low value” in the minds of many people. (And BTW, I would pay much much more than $10 for an online book of your wisdom!). And hey, when are you going to write that Mystery book?!
judyofthewoods

I have read the sales page, and don't see how it can be regarded as scammy or anything else it has been accused of. It even goes so far as to point out that all the contributors worked hard for their success. No vodoo magic beans sold here. No doubt the page contains sales techniques, but I think we should give people more credit for being able to make their own decisions. To paraphrase a comment I read on a forum, “all we can do is give honest information and then trusting the customer to use that info in their own best interests”. You can lead a horse to water… We should also credit those who stake their reputation on promoting the book with the intelligence of knowing what they are doing.

As for price, I am surprised it isn't higher with that line up of contributors.
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http://nathanhangen.com/blog Nathan Hangen

Take a 2nd look and let me know what you think :)
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To paraphrase a comment I read on a forum, “all we can do is give honest information and then trusting the customer to use that info in their own best interests”. You can lead a horse to water.
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christian audigier bikini
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christian audigier bags
christian audigier belt
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Mbtusa

MBT Salama is popular in mbt, and MBT footwear is also popular than other normal footwear.

The Old Value-Cost Conversation

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