What Timberland Taught Me About Retail

November 29, 2009 · Comments

timberland earthkeepers UPDATE: I changed this post around 100% after a conversation with Pat Phelan. He was upset at my handling of the post, and I think I can see his point. More about that in a subsequent post.

I am completely frustrated with the state of face-to-face retail. Upon watching a commercial for the Timberland Earthkeepers brand boot, I was hooked. I wanted a pair. As I need new boots for winter, I thought this was a serendipitous opportunity. So, I marched into the nearest Timberland store (about a half hour from home), and asked to try out the new Earthkeepers.

Only, they didn’t have any. I asked the store clerk if they were sold out. No, he replied. They just didn’t have them yet. I asked him if there were other stores that stocked the boots. He gave me a few names to try out. I called two stores, Macys and Journeys. One you’ve probably heard of, and the other, not.

Macy’s took about 10 minutes to answer my call, hold time included, only to say that they’d never heard of the model of boot. Journeys answered much faster that they’d not heard of it.

Zappos.com had a few models in stock, but not very many, and not in the color I’d have preferred. (But at least they had some.) If one is going to buy shoes online, to me, there’s only one choice: Zappos, and that’s because their customer service is top shelf. Buying shoes is tricky: fit, comfort, and all kinds of other factors are hard to determine over the web.

And yet, no face-to-face store had the boot in stock, nor did they seem all that interested in helping me get a pair. In fact, they didn’t seem to want my money at all.

I’m frustrated. I’m frustrated that Timberland is advertising something their stores and their affiliate stores don’t carry. I’m frustrated that the only purchase points seem to be online. And I’m not frustrated for me, a reasonably savvy tech consumer. I’m frustrated that I learned about these shoes via a TV commercial (saw it at my parents’ house during Thanksgiving), and that I couldn’t actually get the shoes in a store. Further, I’m frustrated that no parts of the distribution chain seemed to know much about the shoe in question.

I guess, in thinking this all over a bit more, I’ve come to realize that there’s really very little reason to walk into a brick and mortar retail store for most products these days. I can research better on the web. I can get better opinions on the web. I can find better deals via the web. And I can actually order something that was advertised, when using a web channel.

What does that tell YOU about retail?

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  • they seem to be in stock at timberland.com
    http://www.timberland.com/sm-mens-waterproof-ea...
    leaves warehouse in 3-4 days
  • Now see? Why couldn't the guy working at the original Timberland store pull up their corporate website and order them for him? If he wanted to go the extra mile, he might have even had them shipped directly to Chris's house for free or something.

    Doesn't even Walmart offer the option to pick up your online orders at your closest store to save you money on shipping? It seems like if you are gonna spend $160 for a nice, sturdy pair of boots that the people at your home store would see to it that you got your pair from them? They would lose a lot of business sending customers with money in their hand to a competitor's store. The main purpose for going to a specialty shoe store vs. just another department store (which I realize that Journey's really isn't, but that's not the point) is the customer service you expect at the specialty store.

    You know what this tells me about retail (and customer service representatives in general)? You can train someone to run a cash register, but you can't "train" someone to genuinely care.
  • When I worked retail, I had access to the warehouse -- except it was through a DOS-like interface. Took a LOT of time and frankly, I'd do better by finding it at another store and having the item shipped to the customer's house.
  • Omigosh, I used to work at an electronic store called Frye's (great company btw :) and as I was leaving, they were finally setting it up to where they could price match online deals and offer in store pickup. It wasn't the easiest thing to transition, as I recall! I'm sure it was worth integrating though.
  • curlydena
    What a load of hot air! While it's never nice to experience poor customer service, I'm sorry, but you sound like a petulant child, stamping his feet because he couldn't get exactly what he wanted, exactly when he wanted it & nobody kissed your a** to apologise for the fact.

    You could have just gone onto the Timberland site and found them there (as many commenters have pointed out).

    This isn't a post about poor customer service, or even poor stock control. It's you spitting out your dummy out because things didn't go your way. I'm disappointed. I thought you were above this kind of nonsense.
  • Certainly one opinion, Dena.

    The post points out this:

    1.) Company makes a huge ad push for a product.
    2.) I go to their store for the product.
    3.) They can neither supply the product nor information.
    4.) Their partners also cannot supply the product.
    5.) I find it with a lot of effort.
    6.) The advertising creates a demand that the channel can't honor.

    Wouldn't that be a marketing conversation?

    That's for your opinion, just the same. I'll just go back to writing more nonsense for tomorrow. : )
  • Dena,
    You're crazy! This is everything about marketing strategy and wasted resources from a company that I'd think was doing better than this. Imagine if Apple advertised a new laptop and they weren't stocking it in stores. No, I can't imagine it either.

    What this amounts to is a bad use of advertising funding by a big company. The problem here really is that this is becoming all too common.

    Seth
  • But what if Apple advertised said new laptop and you went to Radio Shack to purchase it becasue you know you have seen the iPhone or iPod there and they don't have the laptop. Is that Apple's bad marketing or Radio Shacks lack of purchasing the product to sell in their stores? To say that Macy's not have this product is Timberlands fault is a steaming load of cow dung!
  • Whoa! That seems a bit extreme.

    I thought the post was pretty straightforward - if a company is going to put huge dollars behind a marketing push then make sure the orders can be fulfilled at the retail end.

    I thought the comment about Macy's keeping him on hold and then not having a clue was as much a comment on Macy's as it was on Timberland.

    btw, Macy's make you wait 10 minutes (at least) in store too. But at least while you're waiting, you can listen to the clerks bitch about how much they hate their jobs. So that's something I guess.

    This post sums up my feeling about face-to-face retail too. With very few exceptions - Apple being one - the experience is always frustrating and unpleasant. Wonder why Apple's stores are the only ones filled with people ...
  • Whoa! That seems a bit extreme.

    I thought the post was pretty straightforward - if a company is going to put huge dollars behind a marketing push then make sure the orders can be fulfilled at the retail end.

    I thought the comment about Macy's keeping him on hold and then not having a clue was as much a comment on Macy's as it was on Timberland.

    btw, Macy's make you wait 10 minutes (at least) in store too. But at least while you're waiting, you can listen to the clerks bitch about how much they hate their jobs. So that's something I guess.

    This post sums up my feeling about face-to-face retail too. With very few exceptions - Apple being one - the experience is always frustrating and unpleasant. Wonder why Apple's stores are the only ones filled with people ...
  • Anji Taylor
    Wow, what an attitude. I suppose all the effort, not to mention millions of dollars a year that Timberland's Distribution department expends to establish their HUGE network of retailers is all just a waste of time then, since all they really want is for Netizens as well as local folks who shop at malls and main street stores to do is turn up at Timberland.com. As Chris points out, would it have taken a marketing intern at Timberland to think to write, "only at Timberland.com" in final :02 of the advert super?
  • Anji Taylor
    Wow, what an attitude. I suppose all the effort, not to mention millions of dollars a year that Timberland's Distribution department expends to establish their HUGE network of retailers is all just a waste of time then, since all they really want is for Netizens as well as local folks who shop at malls and main street stores to do is turn up at Timberland.com. As Chris points out, would it have taken a marketing intern at Timberland to think to write, "only at Timberland.com" in final :02 of the advert super?
  • Seems like the point, eh? It was easier to go online, which shouldn't be everyone's solution to the problem.
  • blkjkrabbit66
    I would fault the supply chain, and not necessarily the retailers. The Timberland store should have had a solution for you. It is their advertised product - perhaps a rain check, an offering of a phone call when they arrived in your size, or a free shipping from their website. Castigating all retail brick and mortar locations for one poor experience is like never going out to eat again due to a single poor restaurant experience.
  • Leah
    As a woman, I am completely unable to muster sympathy for you.

    Women's shoes/apparel are often advertised months before the item is in season or in stores. From what I can tell, aren't the boots available on Timberland.com? Did you not want to pay for shipping? I would never have called Macy's. It's too big of a store. Keep in mind that during a recession retailers are taking a huge gamble re: how much inventory to stock. Some of my favorite stores clearly under order, then run out quickly. Timberland is not a huge company. I wouldn't expect them to have all the resources that a large one does. I think the public sometimes places unreasonable expectations on smaller companies. The way I navigate is to get to know who does what best, and work from there. I usually get what I wanted.

    That said, one of the greatest complaints I hear about the PR industry is that PR practitioners don't understand enough about business. You never know if there was a delay that was outside of Timberland's control. Those ad buys were probably made months ago. Ads are also a big investment, and can be tough to pull at the last minute. So... sorry, I know you're frustrated. But I'd never have had the expectations that you had.
  • chrish23
    Chris,

    Very sorry to hear about your frustrating experience. My name is Chris and I work for Timberland. I'm responsible for their online business. I understand your frustrations with stores and online shops not having your product or size. We struggle with this everyday. We try to carry ample supply of every style in every size, unfortunately, that isn't always easy to predict.

    In this case; however, this style you've chosen, 15551, is one of our most popular styles and we carry it year round. This product is carried online and in Timberland Specialty stores (meaning not in factory outlets), as well as any of our retail partners who choose to purchase it. I just checked our site and we do have this style in stock and can ship it to you asap. Please use the attached link http://www.timberland.com/product/index.jsp?pro....

    Please let me know if you don't have the experience you expect and I'm sorry you've encountered such frustration thus far.

    .
  • Thanks for coming by, Chris. I appreciate your visit.

    How strange that the retail person made it seem like that style was out of the ordinary, as did the representatives at your retail partners.

    My point with the post was never (and will never be) to try and use my influence to affect some different result than what a typical consumer would get. I was able to find a different style that I'm willing to try out. That's not a big to-do.

    With more consideration, what I guess I felt was that the distribution channels (an official Timberland outlet store and two distribution retail partners) didn't seem all that educated about your product, nor did they seem all that eager to help me make a purchase. After watching your most recent TV ad campaign, that seems like a waste of money.

    It's more an operations issue, but seems like an advertising issue due to timing.

    Make sense?
  • chrish23
    Sorry to repost this, but realized I replied vs. starting a new comment. Sorry about that.

    Chris,

    Very sorry to hear about your frustrating experience. My name is Chris and I work for Timberland. I'm responsible for their online business. I understand your frustrations with stores and online shops not having your product or size. We struggle with this everyday. We try to carry ample supply of every style in every size, unfortunately, that isn't always easy to predict.

    In this case; however, this style you've chosen, 15551, is one of our most popular styles and we carry it year round. This product is carried online and in Timberland Specialty stores (meaning not in factory outlets), as well as any of our retail partners who choose to purchase it. I just checked our site and we do have this style in stock and can ship it to you asap. Please use the attached link http://www.timberland.com/product/index.jsp?pro....

    Please let me know if you don't have the experience you expect and I'm sorry you've encountered such frustration thus far.
  • Chris -
    Good job for being aware of criticism and responsive online. Too many large retailers are content with having a static web presence / storefront. It's a nice to see a company like Timberland is committed to the idea of a dynamic presence where you are wherever your customers need you to be.

    In Brogan's defense about the outlet store, I believe this whole situation illustrates the importance of customer service across ALL retail channels (whether outlet, specialty, online or otherwise). As Chris and Julien state in Trust Agents: "Customer service is the new PR." Your online team seems to get that. Integrating that understanding with your offline teams who may not understand the increasingly important offline / online dynamic can understandably be quite challenging. Good luck. For what it's worth, personally, I think you are headed in the right direction.
  • Commenting twice, in case it's missed in the other thread:

    Thanks for coming by, Chris. I appreciate your visit.

    How strange that the retail person made it seem like that style was out of the ordinary, as did the representatives at your retail partners.

    My point with the post was never (and will never be) to try and use my influence to affect some different result than what a typical consumer would get. I was able to find a different style that I'm willing to try out. That's not a big to-do.

    With more consideration, what I guess I felt was that the distribution channels (an official Timberland outlet store and two distribution retail partners) didn't seem all that educated about your product, nor did they seem all that eager to help me make a purchase. After watching your most recent TV ad campaign, that seems like a waste of money.

    It's more an operations issue, but seems like an advertising issue due to timing.

    Make sense?
  • Chris,

    Sadly, your observations re distribution channels not being educated about product nor eager to help a potential customer make a purchase are becoming a norm. Recently, my power shopper friend and I hit 3 or 4 stores in search of specific Christmas gifts [towels] advertised by said stores. We had exactly the same experience you had in EACH store!

    The common thread? We left every store feeling we were *bothering* the staff and our questions were not welcome. It was also clear they did not appreciate that some effort (which amounted to making a phone call to the same store at another location) would be required to help us spend our [significant amount of] money there. At the end of the day we thought why bother?

    Stores wonder why they can't make the rent. Hello, have you tried dealing with your staff lately? My friend spent a lot of money in gas to get to these places and was willing to drive to ANY location [i.e., no matter how far or inconvenient] to get what she wanted. All she needed was a little assistance regarding other locations and a phone call.

    You can bet there will be no referrals to these stores at any time in the near or distant future!
  • Crazy idea you have there Chris. The advertisement drew you in and the retailer and the experience tossed you back out.

    There's a real lesson here, that's for sure. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
  • tall_geek
    Those are butt-ugly...do you need hiking boots in your suburbia? makes me love Florida more and more.
  • I live in New England. We use snow and slush and mud as a garnish around here.
  • Mary
    That's why I do my shopping online. Search for the item, see what stores have it, compare prices/shipping, contact customer service online with any questions, order it.I'm surprised you took the old fashioned route of driving to the store and calling customer service by phone. Brick and mortar shopping is so '90's. :)
  • dieverdog
    I seldom shop online unless I have to. I am often disappointed by things I have never been able to actually see, touch and evaluate the quality of - not to mention the fit, if it is a shoe or garment. I am seldom home and it's difficult getting things delivered to my home when I am there. I don't have the time often to get to the post office or FedEx or UPS office when they are open to pick up items either so that's not a very viable option either. Going to a store when I can work it into my schedule is the best option for me most of the time. It's great if online works for you, but please don't put down people who do it the "old fashioned" way.
  • Getting the supply chain right is step one if you're advertising a specific product (rather than a brand). The objective is to create demand. No stock available = no sales. Unless you're trying to build up a kind of anticipation, in the way that video games and consoles (and the iPhone) do, with a specific release date then you're throwing money away if you can't close the sale right there. Now you're probably thinking 'hey, maybe I'll look at some other brands of boots'.
  • paulalexgray
    I understand your frustration - it's surprising how often this happens. And it's a shame because Timberland obviously would have placed a lot of effort in designing this product and preparing marketing messages. They're letting themselves down by failing to line up timings appropriately.

    I wrote about a similar experience with Berocca Performance Twist n Go - a vitamin water type drink - advertised on TV but with no website or product information anywhere and extremely restricted availability http://www.brainmates.com.au/?p=1761

    Guess the least that can be hoped for is that the people involved at manufacturers and retailers pay attention to blogs!
  • Wow, what a story!! Sounds like false advertising. How lame to advertise a product they know is not in stock, thus "baiting" customers to shop there...very irresponsible behavior. augh!
  • Just out of curiosity - would the story have been considerably different if just one of those people you spoke to said "y'know we don't have them right now, but I'll take your number and call you on Monday when I can find out a due date"? That's the service experience a friend had with a department store in the UK (House of Fraser) a couple of weeks ago. Someone treating you like your business matters to them makes all the difference. Similar excellent service is offered in John Lewis department stores, but then it's a co-op ownership organisation - every member of staff is the shopkeeper.
  • Absolutely. If someone could've said, "here's when they'll be in," I'd have been well-served. But I never got that far. I got turned away. Me. With money.
  • seussy
    I too got turned away, Chris -- with money. I still can not believe that the online retailer in question let me get away.

    Just a couple of weeks ago, I tried to purchase 4 pairs of shoes on their site, but their Audit Review Team canceled the purchase, suspecting it might be fraudulent. The online retailer then sent me an automated e-mail notification simply telling me that my order had been canceled and that I should get in touch with them should this have been done in error. I sent an e-mail to the retailer telling them that it was indeed an error and that I still wanted the shoes. Their response? An e-mail from a customer representative explaining that they had been unable to confirm my identity and inviting me to call them for the "cancellation reason." Needless to say, this left me most unimpressed, so I took my business to a different online retailer. And just like that, they lost a customer. All the original retailer would have had to do to keep my business would have been to be more proactive in getting the issue resolved rather than tell me to contact them. Unbelievable.
  • ktatgenhorst
    Detecting fraud is a difficult proposition, kudos to them for the effort. There are some ways to verify identity online, however an organization sufficiently burned may want to have voice to voice any time the alarm is raised. Fraudulent purchases tend to get reflected in the prices offered to the masses, so this is a customer service. Perhaps if you had called in and identified yourself, made a purchase and then dropped your suggestion to customer service it might have helped.
  • CatherineVentura
    First of all, great post Chris! But with regard to fraud detection, it is not always easy to fight a stonewalling company. I was shocked to learn that, because I live in Harlem, my area code triggers fraud suspicion with AT&T. I had an extremely frustrating experience with them holding up a purchase without explanation because of the "possibility of fraud", something that took hours and hours to resolve (which of course I blogged about!). It was exhausting and completely avoidable.
  • Chris,

    these have been out for quite some time, there really is no excuse for this other than that Timberland has been in a downward spiral for years (which is a shame, because I've always been a loyal customer, there shoes and boots just happen to have always fit me perfectly).

    That said, I tried on a pair of these a few months ago somewhere, and they felt a little too light and unstable to really qualify as a boot. If you go that light/unstable, you might as well get a slip-on boot or similar...
  • I think about that a lot -- businesses failing to match up different aspects of their business. If you're going to have a great product or great advertising for a product -- the paint on the front door, so to speak -- the inside of the house better live up to the same level. And that means great customer service. Companies make this mistake with social media too -- I wrote earlier this year about an experience I had with Greyhound where the social media presence was very rewarding, but the warm fuzzies were soon dashed by the subpar, real-life experience. http://safedigression.wordpress.com/2009/05/03/...
  • It's funny - seems to me that part of a product launch means having the actual product available for sale. That's what's wrong with retail, big business, and lazy ad guys.
  • Leah
    Nathan,

    A great many businesses do succeed in matching a launch with inventory, but it's always a gamble. From an investment point of view, companies MUST start advertising their products before they're available so that by the time the product does hit the shelves, people know about it and are ready to buy it.

    This is an extremely tough business climate. Most companies, especially smaller businesses, must constantly take out loans to purchase inventory. The loan is repaid once the product is sold. Because of the recession, it's been more difficult to get loans and that is just one of hundreds of things that could go wrong.

    It's easy to make assumptions from the sidelines, but few companies are immune to this type of risk.
  • As a consumer, that's not my problem. As a business owner, that's just poor planning.

    If you can't make sure that your own retail stores have the item in stock, then you don't deserve to be in business. I don't feel sorry for these stores at all.

    Tough business climate? Sure...but that doesn't free a business from doing it's job, especially when good customer service could have solved all of this.
  • But Timberland.com had this shoe in stock the whole time... they can't be responsible for every single individually owned outlet to have it in stock, nor would a company stop advertising a product just because one individually owned outlet doesn't have it while hundreds of others do.
  • In this instance there were 3. To the consumer, it doesn't matter...their needs weren't filled. In this "tough business climate," you'd think a business would want to avoid losing a sale when at all possible.

    I could care less, it's their business, but this is the story of how you lose a business....one customer at a time. Facts don't always matter, perception is the reality.
  • ktatgenhorst
    Timberland.com is one of the communication arms for Timberlands Brand. A consist brand experience is definitely Timberlands responsibility. They should be monitoring and training affiliate stores regarding their offerings and if not stocking, at least training their own branded stores (outlet or not). Timberland presents themselves as an upscale intelligent provider of rugged footwear, that said the response of a Timberland employee or associate to a question about that footwear should never be "uh, I don't know" even a simple "Let me makea call and find out" can still save the customer. They don't need to make every sale, but they shouldn't be willing to lose the customer.
  • I agree-- this is more of a commentary on customer service. "I don't have an answer to why we don't have it in stock, Mr. Customer, but please give me a moment to speak to someone who does." Simple words and a simple matter of proper staff training. It seems amazing to me that the in-store salesperson didn't have the wherewithal to go online to timberland.com to check inventory and provide Chris with a solution after driving half an hour to visit the store.
  • Leah
    Ever seen a rebate sticker on a shelf? This happens all the time. Company decides to carry product. Two parallel paths emerge. Path one is inventory/distribution. Path two is advertising. Both involve complex variables that may or may not be within the company's control. Go ask anyone in business. Until the sales cycle is closed, retailers are holding their breath the entire time. And yes, that's why there are so many "Sold Out" or "Rebate Available" signs in a number of stores, regardless of what they sell.

    BTW, what's YOUR experience in running businesses?
  • I don't have to justify my experience running businesses, but I've been on every place of the ladder.

    Again, I'm not doubting that there are challenges, I'm sure there are. However, that's the disconnect between a business and a consumer and why those businesses that see and understand this disconnect will live on to fight another day and why those that do not, will perish.

    Excuses aren't going to pay your bills are they?

    A retailer should see this coming. A distributor should have a plan in place for situations like this. Does it suck? Yes. Is there a place to save the sale? Yes.

    Rain check, discount coupon, pre-order discount...plenty of ways.

    Sure, this could be the exception to the rule, but that fact that it happened makes it exist.
  • I noticed Chevy doing something similar last year around this time with Chevy Volt commercials. The commercials looked like they were advertising a car that you could go out and buy right away (until the very end of the commercial when they flashed "2010" on the screen).

    The amazing thing was that at the time, Chevy hadn't even finished inventing the Volt. In fact, even now, a year later, I don't think they've quite figured out the battery. Sure, it was clever to advertise the future of their company, but as you say, it's dishonest. You're advertising something that you don't even sell (or, in the case of your Timberlands, something they do sell but you can't buy). Poor form.
  • Hey Chris, you know this happens to me all the time! I live in Italy and my home country this behaviour from a top brand company is pretty normal. I hate it. And as you say, to create demand for a product that does not exist or cannot be readily supplied to customers really sucks.
  • Oh.. I hear you.

    How about that trip to the pharmacy, to buy that one product (umm.. skin thing) and its not on the shelf. I mean.. why OH why can't you keep your shelves stocked. Then.. u go for something else.. and that is empty.

    This rarely happens at Walmart. So.. yep. I go there when I need something. Because they will have it. What a concept.
  • Nintendo did this with the Wii for years...
  • natfinn
    It looks like they're online testing.

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=timberlad+...

    My guess would be that if it's successful then they'll up production and put them in retail stores. Some companies won't make any product unless the online test is successful. Ethically questionable? Yep, but so it goes.

    I can see where online testing is successful, but why would people buy boots without trying them on?
  • It is extremely frustrating if they advertised it as a preview and did not make that clear, but there is the occasional situation where the popularity of the product exceeds the stock. Companies need to be prepared for this and make sure the customer experience is still positive (wait list, email me when it is available, etc.), but do you think that in this day and age out of stock is unacceptable?
  • I got a pair of those boots through Ebay recently. Brand new and shipped from the US to Ireland in a week. Happy days.
    Seeing that ads have global reach nowadays it is really a bit silly to expect that everything you see advertised should also be available to you at the drop of a hat.
    It would indicate a lack of understanding of sales channels...
    Just because Timberland advertises the boots doesn't mean that every retailer should stock them.
  • I mostly agree with you. Zappos is a great company, so you can't really give them all the blame. It would seem from your story that Timberland jumped the gun. I'd be interested to see if it was a failure in their marketing department for releasing their ads early, or more than likely a problem with their supplier in China or where ever these are made.

    It could also be that they simply sold out, but who really buys Timberland anymore anyway?
  • That's why I got them. Everyone else moved off them. : )
  • Surely this isn't the first time you've experienced false or misleading advertising. Have you ever had a fast food burger that looked even remotely like it does in the ads.

    Don't make me start calling you, Bubble Boy. ;)
  • cyclefiend2000
    dont game system maker and toy companies do this each and every christmas?

    i would have been disappointed too, but then again mall stores are not on my list of places to check most of the time. i can almost guarantee that if you had went with a locally owned (mom & pop) store, if they still exist in your area, customer service would have been better. at least that is based on my own personal experiences.

    the small guys have to rely on customer service since they can almost never compete price wise with bigger chain stores.
  • I think you're unnecessarily harsh here blaming an entire company for advertising a product *your local individually owned store* didn't carry, when other Timberland stores do and the Timberland website you visited had it in stock.

    Retail stores aren't like a McDonalds -- each store has a different amount of space to stock items, a different financial position, a different market where local customers have different product preferences -- they can't all carry the entire product line of the brands they stock.

    In fact, this is so unlike you, I wonder if this isn't some kind of advertising for Timberland guised as a complaint.
  • Now that'd be funny. : )

    I rewrote the post. Do you like it better now?
  • Yes :)
  • ktatgenhorst
    Not carrying the whole of the line that your corporate parent puts out is not the same as not being educated about it. I would expect that if I went into a Timberland store and asked about a specific timberland shoe, an associate could either show me the shoe or tell me how to order it. Extra points if they offer to order it.
  • There's often a disconnect between a company's e-commerce site and its retail stores, perhaps due to lack of communication between departments. Timberland is not unique in this respect. Take Barnes & Noble for example. One cannot purchase a book in its store for the same (lower) price listed on its web site. Now *that* is goofy. So, unless it's an item I must see/touch/try on, I rarely visit retail stores nowadays, because it usually turns into a big hassle, as you experienced at Timberland.
  • remarkablogger
    You hit upon the very reason for the price difference: online vs. physical. Less overhead online means cheaper books. :-)
  • last year I needed a new pair of basketball shoes, about 20 years went by since I bought my last pair. Things were simpler 20 years ago, a couple of Air Jordans and Converse... not too many options not too many ways to go wrong. Now days though... I went to a few stores and realized that the nonprofessional sellers and the unimaginable offering will not get me anywhere... especially since they no one seem to carry the shoes that are known as professional and not fashionable...
    I ended up ordering from Zappos - the fair prices, real customers reviews and just about any pro shoe I wanted, in stock-
    I tried a few on and ended buying a great AND1 shoe that felt best on my foot, looked good and matched my budget.
    What I learned is that the paradigm has shifted. You just can't get this level of service in live retail any longer. So why expect it?
  • beckymccray
    I am a local retailer. OK, so I sell liquor instead of shoes, but still an independent shop. It's true that I run out of stock. It's true that sometimes we haven't heard of the brands or products you ask us about. But it is up to us to find out and let you know.

    When we talk about shop local campaigns at Small Biz Survival, we always draw some comments about helping local businesses to improve, to *earn* the extra sales.

    Which brings us back to the main point that I took from BAM! Customer Service from Barry Moltz: each customer has their own idea of what will satisfy them. It's up to me to find out what that is, and achieve it.
  • Common courtesy and social graces go such a long way to make me feel appreciated. In all things, first be helpful.
  • Small businesses can most certainly win at this game. Excellent customer service trumps all. Look at my friend Carolyn's bookstore. She won my business years ago by not having a product in stock, but ordering it and getting it to me with no fuss. She earned YEARS of revenue from me with that one move.
  • Chris

    Your frustration is completely valid from so many different standpoints. Assuming your parents live near you and ultimately the Timberland store, they were running advertising what I am presuming locally, tri-state or something of the like. Was the retail outlet near you aware that they were running a spot for this shoe? I am thinking not as if they were aware, one would hope that they would have either had the shoe in stock or had a date when they would have it in stock. Second, this goes to customer service. You had to call the other stores to try and buy their shoe? Hmmm, albeit maybe when I did my 15 yrs in retail part time, I would call my other stores to see if they had what the customer needed and either transfer it in via home office or pick it up myself. If it was something that we did just not have, I would call the other retailers myself to see if they had what the customer was looking for. Now during super busy times that was not always possible but if I got a few inquiries for it, rest assured I made time. I did not get commission as I was quite frankly your friendly neighborhood cashier at the store but knew what inventory we had at all times or how to best help customers. Maybe I was and my thinking to this date is a rarity?

    The frustration started at corporate as seems like they did not alert the store that they were running spots (cuz if they did then the mgr would have probably asked for inventory or again knew when it was coming) and then trickled down to the face to face store level as they seemed to have no idea nor possibly interest in trying to help you become a customer and uh a loyal one at that. Wait, take it a step further. It does not take much to add to a tv commercial - available online at timberland.com ONLY. This is advertising 101. Maybe in the biz I am too close to it but there was a disconnect that never should have happened.

    PS Love your comment above about how snow slush and mud are garnishes. Brings me back to remembering why I live in Vegas and not Jersey.
  • Becky -- you hit the nail on the head. This point for me is how the retailer cares about my situation. That's what I got from Chris' post. Disappointment that they don't have the product is one thing, but when they act like they don't care that is quite another (and much more important in my book). Kudos to you for your approach.
  • remarkablogger
    And people wonder why little stores are going out of business! I could take every shop owner in my town, line them up, and then mass slap them like the three freakin' stooges for being such terrible marketers and businesspeople--and then having the gall to blame their lameness on Wal-Mart.

    Yeah. Right.

    Nice to see somebody at Timberland rockin' the Google Alerts.
  • Sounds like an opportunity for a bricks and mortar retailer with properly trained staff Chris.
    You were pissed I understand, but maybe the end of this story is that you find that kind of retailer and blog-chirp about it all the way to their bank.
    Good B&M retail is not dead, in fact because of the net it is easier to find than ever.
  • Disappointed...almost feel sold out. If opinions are this easily swayed, then why have one at all?
  • Greetings from across the Atlantic.

    I love a customer service story with warts. I better say first that I've only read the latest version of the post and haven't time now to look for the original.

    There's loads of evidence that companies have better long term relations with customers after they've fixed something that went wrong. So if the shop had recovered from not having the item in stock by making a remarkable and successful effort to provide Chris the boots, that shop would have been much better off.

    If I choose to go into a shop, rather than order on line, that's my choice. No amount of advice that I could have got it on line is attractive to me.

    We're all going through an economic recession. It seems to me that it's showing many businesses to be unfit for business. A business that employs retail staff who don't seem to care about the customer's disappointment, is that business being well led? For me, this story highlights the quality of leadership that many businesses lack.
  • HUGE lesson for ALL businesses to consider from a user-centered design point of view ... and THIS, unfortunately, i consider to be a Total eXperience Design issue

    so, awesome ... Timberland's got this brand new boot ... they put the adds 'out there', whether you saw them online or in the paper, they started to plant the seed, that PAIN as they used to call it in sales ( not sure of the modern spin on sales strategy, but I hope its not pain ) ... the basically set up an expectation and they did a darn good job leading you to the product ... problem is, if they weren't done with the product, the application, the campaign ( and this is a campaign or experience level issue ), they should have never let the information out in the first place ... because now, from a user-centered point of view, they have MISLED you ... put you in a dead end ... dropped you in the desert ... fill in the metaphor for 'missed out' or 'futzed up' ...

    ... seems to me, too, that you went over and beyond what an average user would go through to get what they want in an new consumer environment that equates effort and 'the hunt' with 'click here' and you're gone ... and we know, its not technically THAT new ... so superShame on Timberland for not really thinking in the boots of the user

    now they're a forever case study for us all to learn from and not an awesome viral story on your feet
  • That's crazy! Especially for a brand that has its own stores!
  • Everything's already been said (and I agree with you, Chris--I just bought some Zappos shoes today)...but I will throw in a fun anecdote on this topic that I just revisited by being in town (Boston) again this holiday. I just saw a Red Lobster commercial on TV and my dad quipped that there aren't any Red Lobsters nearby.

    Fact is, I grew up here to a steady stream of Red Lobster restaurant advertisements on TV. I always wanted to go to a Red Lobster--really. But in Burlington and Framingham (where I was from) and Haverhill and Ashland (where I now visit) I'm not aware of a single Red Lobster location within any distance. I just checked their website and did a search...but nothing came back in the state of MA. Then I tried Google Maps. Then I tried Yelp, and found the nearest result in Connecticut.

    So maybe I'm just a terrible searcher, but something tells me all those 30 second TV spots (and I've seen LOTS of them and I don't even watch much TV) have been a colossal waste of money in MA when the consumer can't even find a location to eat at.

    What I could do with all that money for my little startup...
  • DorothyP
    Media buys aren't made individual market by individual market, but rather by bundles. And the money would never flow to your "liitle startup" in a million years.
  • I understand how media buys work, but to advertise for a restaurant that's not within 100 miles is just plain stupid. If that's how it works then the system is fundamentally flawed.

    Fortunately through intelligent and targeted outreach plenty more money will flow to my little startup.
  • Awesome Chris.. Hold them accountable... No more gate keepers... Keep the power in the peeps!!! The y will one day get it... Just keep going...
  • bradblackman
    I found some nice Timberland boots on the Timberland website, but a few days later, they were AWOL. I can't find them on Zappos, either. May have to hit a retail store, but if I can't find them on the Timberland site, I'm doubtful I'll find them elsewhere. I found the low-top version online though. :-/
  • It's terribly frustrating as someone who works in retail to see this, and to hear from every source imaginable that, on the eve of what supposedly saves retail on a yearly basis (Black Friday) that Retail Is Dead.

    But you know what? It bloody well is. Nearly.

    Yes. It's frustrating for you to have this happen. Imagine us, being on the other side of the counter, getting the same question, and the same frustration a few dozen times a day. Yes, we know the supply chain sucks. I absolutely agree that an advertised product should be available - and it's absolutely, mind-rendingly angering to see a commercial for your OWN BRAND every so often that's touting a product you know you haven't got, and will hear about for weeks until either it comes in, or until the ads go the hell away.

    Who do we blame for this? Is it the retailers? Maybe it's marketing's fault for messing up a date? Who knows who the final blame lies on, but it doesn't matter; what matters is that, yes, retail is in a massive vat of hot water, oblivious as a frog being cooked alive by online sales, stress from sky-rocketing overhead, and demand from consumers.

    Retail sucks. And I agree totally that something has to change, or it really will die. It's just a little distressing to see a few hundred obituaries when you're still on life support.
  • Try some Columbia shoes. I bought Tagori last year and I still using it now. For me Columbia is way better than Timberland if you ask me.
  • I like the shoes so I am going to purchase it in week ends. And another thing about wristband, its also looks cool.
  • Keep the power in the peeps!!! They will one day get it... Just keep going...
  • I can relate completely. I had exactly the same sort of experience with a pair of shoes advertised in a big Sunday newspaper supplement a few years ago. In this case, the shoe company staff themselves didn't know where to get the shoes - they weren't even sure whether they were coming into stock at all. In the end I didn't get the shoes - never did see them in the shops, and the company (which was a national chain) has recently closed down. Not entirely a surprise.

    Bricks and mortar stores have one significant advantage over internet shopping, and that's the experience element. If you want to experience the lights, the atmosphere, the pleasure of shopping with a friend, they can deliver something that online outlets can't do. However, that backfires massively when the experience includes frustration and annoyance.

    Irrespective of the fact that you could get them online, there's a valuable lesson in this post. I'm hearing more and more people say they're doing all their Christmas shopping online this year. There's a wake-up call for bricks and mortar retail - the shape of shopping is changing and they need to think about how they can compete.
  • I have to admit I have a soft spot for Timberland. And I understand how complex supply chain logistics can be. Unless your business name rhymes with All Fart, you're going to have gaps in stock.

    But this is more about customer service than inventory management. Consider these points:

    Chris knew more about what Timberland had to offer than a Timberland store employee. That's a sign of great marketing and poor training.

    Timberland.com gets mentioned a couple times in the comments. If it's such an obvious solution to the problem, why didn't the store employee think of it?

    I suspect the answer to my question has something to do with the ecommerce site and this store being part of different business units. I hope not because that makes no sense to customers.

    I don't buy chrish23's explanation that the boot is stocked in specialty stores not factory outlets. I think it's a bit much to expect customers to know the difference. It's the same logo. If you want us to be loyal to a brand, you need better consistency.

    I do commend chrish23 for making an effort to solve the problem. Hopefully his supervisors are paying attention and planning to train store employees on how to solve problems.

    Remember this isn't about the inventory. It's about the customer.
  • I'm old enough to be your Dad. I tweet a few times a day and Blog 3 times a week. I read Trust Agents. Liked it so much I bought 10 copies and gave them to my business partners and my friends. I know you are revered at HubSpot, and I've used their inbound marketing tools for a year and have moved my site in the right direction with their tools. And yours.

    I'd suggest the title to your next book be "Control Agents." Rather than lend a hand to Timberland, you smacked them down and tried to make your point publically. If you are large enough to speak, write and command a following, you must realize the enormous responsibility you carry so that you walk the talk of trust and you lead by example. What you showed me (and the ten people I now unfortunately gave your book to) is that when you want something immediately and you can't have it, and you don't get the reaction you wanted (or childishly needed) you smack them down in front of your audience. Hardly trust worthy.

    Had you used your trust and the responsibility you have and offered to show Timberland how to do better (and clearly they need to do better) you'd have been a great example for those people who whine every time their needs are not immediately met. The universe does not operate at the speed of the Internet. Nor does business. TRUST me on that.
  • Your "apology" shouldn't have come from Chris23, who manages their online business but from someone higher up, like maybe the VP of Marketing.

    I hope Chris23 is forwarding the feedback up the chain of command. That would show leadership, a concern for the entire company and senior management potential.

    He could just as easily delight in the poor brick-and-mortar performance and let his online efforts shine, which means he'll never be more than a mid-manager.

    Note, as an ex-VP of Marketing, it's REALLY tough to get channel personnel to take the time to learn about new products.

    Steve
  • I have to agree with this. I have a similar story. I just "bought" a pair of mountaineering boots from a leading outdoor gear retailer. They actually have exactly 1 copy of the boot in the store. They don't "get in" your size to try on - - you have to order it on the web (they have some barely working "terminals" in the store to do this), get it sent to the store, go back and try it on. Since these boots are very hard to fit, I had to "order" 3 sizes at $540 per copy - - which means I had to lay out $1,620 on my credit card just to try on three pairs of these things. It doesn't even require being a little cynical to see that this retailer is floating their store stocking inventory by using customer cash to do it. Might as well just have gone to the UPS store with the boots, tried them on, and immediately sent back the ones I didn't want. It's closer to my house.
  • I am always hesitant to post comments about face-to-face customer service, as I have always thought it was an individual thing. Some people look at their experience with a retailer and thing the CS is wonderful; others look at their experiences with the same retailer and think they are hell on earth, being run by the devil himself. So I won't go there.

    But to the larger issue, I think this is yet another sign that retailers are going more towards E-commerce. Every holiday season, for the past 5 I think, E-commerce purchasing at the holiday time as gone up. I believe I just recently heard a report that this first holiday shopping weekend, it was up 38% over last year. And cyber Monday isn't until today!

    I recently had a job interview with a company that deals in nothing by catalog and E-commerce. They have 0 brick-and-mortar stores. While so many other retailers are having issues in this economy, this brand has been excelling.

    So I think you are correct in your assumption that you should just start with online shopping first. Plus, most companies will offer free shipping these days to boot. And I personally enjoy the reviews of other consumers that you can get online, as opposed to trusting the salesperson's word for it.
  • Dorethia
    Chris, you are on point. Why spend all that money on advertising a product that consumers can't purchase? I like shopping online, but don't want to have to do it all the time. I've experienced time and again going into stores where sales associates are not knowledgeable about the products carried there. It's ridiculous.

    Also, to your point of the employees not wanting to help you find it either - I think retailers should explain to them how the chain works marketing = customers = sales = you keeping your job! I'm just sayin'...
  • profplayfair
    Wow - you dump on *all retail* from one experience! Pretty strong stuff. What I hear you saying is that a television ad, with no conversation at all, convinces you that *must* have something, then when you can't find it tomorrow, from there all retail is junk. I thought you were all about conversation. And *good* retail (and I don't count Macy's in that, or most other chains) are all about conversation - real conversation with real people in real time with real goods you can take home right then and there and enjoy. And if not enjoyed, then return, with a smile, no need to pack and ship back.
  • Wouldn't this qualify as conversation? 100 comments about the state of retail from one bad experience. Not bad, I'd say.
  • profplayfair
    There's conversation, and then there's "you stink". You stink may get lots of people talking, but no, sorry, I don't agree that's a real conversation. A flamefest is more what starts from that kind of flat out comment where one experience then stretches to an entire industry.
  • steverobertson
    Wow - Sometimes personal frustration warrants a post but does it warrant a wholesale indictment of brick and mortar retail operations. While my experience with any large retailer this time of year is usually sub par at best (customer volume, training, out of stock issues, etc.) I do not find that to be the case in most established independent retailers. These are folks that are typically making their mark in things like customer service and hard to find items. They also stick around your town when Wal-Mart, Macy's and Target decide to move on to greener pastures. If Timberland is over advertising and under producing products then keep your ire focused on them. Quite frankly it is the big brand (and little brands now too) on-line and flagship store cannibalism that you and they (Timberland) describe here that makes it hard to find their products at the small independent outlet. Independent businesses are the very same people and businesses that 9 times out of 10 helped establish their brand in a very grass roots way before they made their move to go direct to the customer and push them aside.

    There is a rather large yoga and active wear company out of Vancouver, BC that has followed this same path recently. What's interesting is how hard they try not to look like the big public "shareholder value" company they are in their social media activities.

    I love social media and the positive changes it is causing in the relationship between buyer and seller. It is also a great tool for the small and midsize guy to grow and expand. What it will never be is a substitute for great customer service, poor operations or screwed up supply chains. In the end who violated your trust here? The retailer who clearly is not being given (or ordering) enough stock or the manufacturer who's only resource for you to find the product is at THEIR website (probably at full retail). I wonder which transaction makes them the most money??? It also happens to do you the biggest disservice.
  • In defense of Macy’s and Journey’s, they can’t control what Timberland advertises on TV and perhaps Timberland advertised prematurely without retailers having inventory. BUT, you’re point is quite legit and a great example of ongoing “service” and traditional retail oriented problems. As for the Timberland store itself, totally unacceptable. As I read your post I was thinking to myself... “Sad that Chris had to ASK all those questions... Are they sold out? Are there other stores that carry them?” The store employee should have been being proactive to HELP YOU with those answer in advance of you even asking the questions. – I think this is systemic of a larger retail issue. Most pay minimum wage, have high turnover and don’t train their staff enough on a mandatory HOW TO cater to a customers needs. I always look at Chick-Fil-A as a positive example. They often have way more staff on hand than what appears to be needed. They pay more than the average fast food joint. They train their staff well and demand high standards of their staff. I’m almost always greeted with respect, courtesy and exceptional service + the food is good. If Chick-Fil-A can do it then so can others (fast food, retailers, mall vendors, etc). It's a choice but managers, owners, etc have to instill it in their staff.
  • Funny you mentioned these boots.
    When they first came out a year ago, Timberland did a big advertising push (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=958jVyB0ccI) and I went to Nordstrom's to buy a pair. They were without stock so I dropped the quest. Fast forward one year to Black Friday '09, again, I felt the need for these in black (although I didn’t see the TV spot) and I checked out Zappos but couldn't pull the trigger. Apparently, customers have been commenting on the fast wear of the sole and weakness in design that lets water in around the tongue. So dropped the search based on the product itself versus the availability. In reading your timely post I see 3 main issues keeping these boots from potential owners:

    Problem #1 - Timberland shows TV ad to increase demand but doesn’t stock the store or point the customer to Timberland.com
    Problem #2 - Retailers are misinformed and not aware of the ads and potential demand
    Problem #3 - Demand outstrips supply

    Problem #1
    Timberland screwed up the promotion and signals a disconnect internally between marketing and sales. With an expensive TV placement on Thanksgiving they must have been aware of this promotion months in advance and should of at least stocked local Timberland Stores. This was a crucial failure in promotion as it involves only company owned outlets. In Timberland’s defense, the web site does show the shoes in multiple color variations.

    Problem #2
    Retailers of Timberland not stocking the shoes. In the retailer’s defense -for example, Macy's - it's up to the men’s shoe buyer to determine the shoe assortment and distribution. Most likely, Macy's is trying to stay as lean as possible to survive, and possibly only carrying certain lines in higher volume stores. Timberland can plead all day long to stock up for a promotional campaign but it is Macy's decision to buy or not. However, speaking from an ex-buyer’s perspective maybe Macy’s was not aware of the TV promotion and thus missed an opportunity. Thinking of my first experience at Nordstroms one year ago, this could be a channel management problem with Timberland Account Management. In writing this, I also thought that maybe Timberland wants to take the orders on a direct basis to increase margin.

    Problem #3
    Demand outstrips supply. I find it interesting that I wanted these boots and so did Chris. I don’t live in a snowy climate, but in sunny Florida, so why we do we both want them? Are there other Timberland Earthkeepers fans out there? So maybe, it’s such a hot seller that Timberland stores, Macy’s and Zappos didn’t receive the inventory they requested?

    In summary, as an ecommerce guy, I see this trend continuing and slowly consumers will have less choices available to touch and feel on a local level. Brick and mortar stores are costly to operate and buyers have reduced inventory to keep from being upside-down. Unfortunately, with manufacturers pumping ads of their products, especially during the holiday season, retail stores are out of stock before most people hit the stores. As this trend continues, ecommerce sales will grow and physical retail sales will shrink. Welcome to the new shopping model and hope you find a pair of boots, I know I haven’t yet!
  • Patrick Garmoe
    Hello Chris,
    Read your post, and have mixed feelings.
    1. On the one hand, you're only one customer. I'm sure there are tens of thousands of customers who bought shoes yesterday who received perfectly great service.

    2. On the other hand, you are correct. I work part-time for a major chain store that prides itself on personalized service, and after just working there for a few months, I've learned that they demand their employees work REALLY hard at giving the customer top shelf service (so they don't just buy the book online) but at the same time I've noticed they work hard to fill the store with the minimum amount of employees necessary to get the job done. So often a customer may get good service once they are actually helped. But employees are so busy that it frustrates waiting customers at times. That's not exactly the situation you describe here, but I believe it underlies the larger point of stores constantly having to balance massive staffs with all sorts of supply chains and groups scattered around the country doing different things like running ads. I think stores naturally want to maximize the bottom line, and the easiest thing to cut is good customer service, because you can't itemize losses based on bad customer service. Staffing the store with 10 people instead of 11 may help the bottom line, and you'll never hear about the woman who walked out without buying the perfume she had a question about.

    Although shopping online may be easier for you and me however, when I mention our website, many of the customers look at me with a blank stare, like I'm telling them I just flew in from Mars. No kidding.
  • thomasrector
    I couldnt agree more. I rarely go to a B&M store anymore as the service personnel are so poorly trained and unmotivated that it is a depressing chore. I can find most of what I need online and rarely have an issue with returning or exchanging items. I watched an old movie last night on TCM called "Shop Around the Corner." It was a silly romantic comedy set in a gift shop in Belgrade. What it told me was that it USED to be a worthy career to work in (or own!) a shop. Now its viewed as a loser's profession. How and when did this happen? Its sad and pathetic.
  • This happens more often than not in my experience. I encountered the same thing with the Barnes and Noble Nook eReader. I got an email that it was available so I looked online and I was interested further. So I drove to my local B&N store because I wanted to see it in person and try it out before spending that kind of cash. When I got to the store all the employees name badges were branded with the Nook. I asked where the demo model was and the response was we don't have any. The clerk was nice and pointed me to the tv set up with video going and brochures. I asked if any stores had a demo and he said the big ones. Which ones? He said none in Nashville but he was sure LA and NYC stores had them.

    So basically I had done the same thing and left empty handed. Adding to that I read that the Nook is now sold out until after the holidays. Bad first experience and now I couldn't get one for the holiday even if I wanted it.

    Retailers need to coordinate online and offline channels much better.
  • patrickgarmoe
    Hello Chris,
    Read your post, and have mixed feelings.
    1. On the one hand, you're only one customer. I'm sure there are tens of thousands of customers who bought shoes yesterday who received perfectly great service.

    2. On the other hand, you are correct. I work part-time for a major chain store that prides itself on personalized service, and after just working there for a few months, I've learned that they demand their employees work REALLY hard at giving the customer top shelf service (so they don't just buy the book online) but at the same time I've noticed they work hard to fill the store with the minimum amount of employees necessary to get the job done. So often a customer may get good service once they are actually helped. But employees are so busy that it frustrates waiting customers at times. That's not exactly the situation you describe here, but I believe it underlies the larger point of stores constantly having to balance massive staffs with all sorts of supply chains and groups scattered around the country doing different things like running ads. I think stores naturally want to maximize the bottom line, and the easiest thing to cut is good customer service, because you can't itemize losses based on bad customer service. Staffing the store with 10 people instead of 11 may help the bottom line, and you'll never hear about the woman who walked out without buying the perfume she had a question about.

    Although shopping online may be easier for you and me however, when I mention our website, many of the customers look at me with a blank stare, like I'm telling them I just flew in from Mars. No kidding.
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