What Tom Could Learn from Facebook

Well said - and damn funny.

LOL Oh my you said exactly what i was thinking today while I was on the phone with BBB who totally was insulting and annoying.

bbb: "you don't want to increase your business tenfold by spending $800/year to be listed in our directory?"

"no it doesn't work for my business. plus i am already #1 on google local search."

"but you pay a lot of money for that."

"no, i blog regularly. i pay only for hosting my site."

"oh that's probably because you have no competitors in your category then."

someone ought to add "don't be a douche bag" as part of the sales training.

cheers,
cindy

Really suprised that this still happens. I cut my teeth in the PR world about 12 years ago and the one thing that was drummed in to me when the media was "know your audience". If you ever picked up the phone to call someone you knew EVERYTHING they had written in the past 12 months. You had to earn the right to talk to someone...

Now it just seems like everyone is lazier- and that's with even MORE tools and resources!

(3rd comment of the day for "WCD");-)

Well said.

It will be nice to follow this and see how much Tom/CellSpin knows (if he has a vanity feed, this should be popping up) and how quickly he'll react (if at all). Either way will tell us more about the level of learning required to "get it".

I guess it's time for a PR guy to chime in. Lesson learned here? It's about RELATIONSHIPS, my fellow PR peeps. Before you send news, read the person you're pitching, then introduce yourself. Ask how you can work together. And when you're finally ready to pitch, duh, don't send unsolicited embargoed news! More PR 101 stuff.

Hear hear, Chris!!

I get press releases all the time, and in many instances, they can be the lifeblood of running a media business speaking about the food and wine industry.

However, when someone I've never heard of, from a PR firm I've never heard of, blind emails me a press release on a PRODUCT I've never heard of, it only makes it worse when in their email, they seem to EXPECT that I will cover the product. Hey, I'm LOOKING for cool new products and people to talk about all the time, and I welcome these releases. But yeah, it really ticks me off when they act like they're doing us a favor just letting us know they exist.

You say it right with the "fart in my face" comment, since in some of these instances, the person sending the email has clearly NO understanding of what we do or who we are. When they say something like "could you ask your editor if you can write about XYZ", it shows that they haven't even bothered to look at our website to learn that we OWN the company!

I guess they figure that since they are sending out a bunch of emails, that any corner they can cut to get it done more quickly is worth it, and that casting a wider net is better than throwing out a single line to the right person. What PR people must undersand is that their job is not just to try to get as many as people as possible to read a pre-digested press release, but to generate positive understanding and goodwill for their clients.

I <3 CHRISBROGAN.COM!

This post will either have thousands of people "getting to know you" before their next press release or removing you from their bulk address book. Is it so hard to say hello these days? With email, Skype, IM, ooVoo, comments, Twitter -- all types of conversations are going on to get to know someone.

My two pennies.

Aloha,
NEENZ.

WOW Very well said (written)
I really appreciate your cantor
Smiles
Lisa

Well said Steve, the most important thing to come out of this is to see what Tom's reaction/response will be..

and such a clean commode to flush him down. perfect!

Hey Chris,

I fully agree with you on this and that's why thus far I've tried connecting with people who's feedback I would learn something from and engaging them via Twitter and then an email asking for their permission to email them. Afterall, building relationships and creating real conversations are important if you care about your brand. By the way, I'll be talking to you soon ;)

cheers
BJ

I'm going to (slightly) play the Devil's advocate here. I made the same mistake roughly nine months ago. I had no experience with any of this, but worked for a company that heard the meme that everyone else is hearing: There's money to be had here. I, acting on their behalf, sent a boneheaded email to a very important blogger requesting he do something ridiculous for us. He called us--and me--out on it as well and nearly got me fired. The thing is, for most people in the business world, this is just HOW things are done. Nothing malicious or sinister about it, it's just an accepted matter-of-course.

Thankfully, I both left the company and, despite this incident (or perhaps because of it) stayed around long enough to get involved. But, I wonder if sometimes we're not being counter-productive by trying to shame those who "don't get it". If we agree that a lot of it is 'new' then why are we so shocked and dismayed at the prevalence of the old? Should everyone be expected to know the ins-and-out of the conversation before joining it?

Awesome photo.

Brilliant.

Was it a "hey man, write about our company" type of email without even a "Hello Chris, your blog is great. I especially like the post about blah..."?

BTW, I have a product I want you to promote on your website tomorrow, can you blog it? ;-) JJ!

Good point to bring up, Seth.

However, the "new" part if how we're doing this stuff from a technical perspective, not the "how to interact with people and understand human nature" part.

Sure, the "old" way may be to do it like this, but it ignores that it's just plain common sense to approach someone in a way that shows that you get WHO they are.

Dale Carnegie even wrote a book about it!

The toilet image is the finishing touch. I always love your "stupid little blog."

Joy~

Jeanette

Memo to me: Don't fart in Chris' face. I like the way you slam.

A few comments about the toilet picture suggest that I tell you something. Steve Jurvetson, the photographer (you can click the graphic to see the original), is also Steve Jurvetson who loves rocketry ( See his TED talk here). Steve, by the way, is also part of Draper Fisher Jurvetson. Can you believe it? A VC rocketeer who snaps cool pictures of toilets.

Maybe Tom can learn from him. : )

Hey Chris,

Your post is a great lesson for conversational marketing and PR 101 example.

Marcel

Early today Stephanie Agresta tweeted about not understanding those people who aren't interested in the business aspects of social networking... I think that's what she said, but in any case if she didn't she brought it to mind. Traditional advertising is all about one-way communication, just like this press release you got, rather than relationships, which is what the internets has made possible. I think the people who are still thinking in terms of pre-internets marketing don't appreciate social media. Those of us who understand that this is not about bombarding everyone possible with messages know better.

I'm not sure how valuable those thoughts were. I'm still a baby when it comes to social media. I'm still learning. And what better place than here? Thanks, Chris.

Ha, I just reread my comment. I think I should eat dinner before posting so I don't make permanent my grammatical errors and blather. -blush-blush-

@Anna - I don't grade on grammar. That's Grammar Girl. : )

Know what else is funny? I don't even seem able to find a Facebook profile for Tom. The guy telling me that his company has a great new app for posting to Facebook. He's not even IN the community he's spamming me about?

Oh, I truly hope he does a decent job of social media listening and finds this post. It'll be interesting to hear his thoughts on it.

Seth, I love folks who try to see both sides and I applaud that. But anyone who's spent five seconds in professional communications ought to know better than to blind pitch anyone, but *especially* a blogger. And there has been a cubic boatload of advice hand-delivered to PR pros telling them this is a bad idea.

So while I applaud your compassion, I think Chris is exactly right. Not because PR is a bad or evil profession (I'm in professional comms myself) but because some people only learn by getting slapped in the head, and even then it seems to take awhile.

My agency pals all tell me the same thing--yeah, everyone acknowledges that carpet-bomb pitching is theoretically uncool, but everyone does it anyway. Even the "good" agencies. Like astroturfing and other unlovely practices, if we let it go, it just gets worse.

P.S. You can tell Chris is a gentle guy because he didn't post the embargoed press release.

Great post, Chris. I just facilitated a word-of-mouth marketing discussion, and this example (and your post) would have been perfect. Next time. Thanks for sharing. Can't wait to see the follow-up.

Thanks! I -heart- Grammar Girl. She's a woman after my own true heart.

So here's a question: How should we get messages about nontraditional media to those not yet indoctrinated? Send press releases to print periodicals? I checked out and read (most of) a book on social networking and new marketing. A book! I'm not kidding. Which was out of date before it hit the press, but which most importantly expounds on relationships as tantamount. Book was by David Meerman Scott, by the way. Tom should read it. So should anyone who is still reading books to learn about marketing.

@Anna - I met David in person when he spoke at PodCamp Boston2. He and I talked about the way it feels when something goes to print and then feels all static. It's tricky. That book was in its final form before Facebook hit big, so that made it feel a little off right away, and yet, if I write a book about social media, I hope it has half the value of David Meerman Scott's main points.

Starting to think we should post books like that one and Geoff Livingston's and Brian Solis's NOW IS GONE for free online as pointers to the mainstream. (Except that I want my friends to make money).

Oh well. We'll see what happens when dear Tom wakes up in a few hours to "reap the rewards" of his press release efforts.

Anna, I don't think that anyone would argue that companies shouldn't use press releases, nor that they should personalize them all. I think the issue at hand is about making a specific request from someone using a blind press release and request, and in so doing, showing that you don't know (or care) about the person you're making the request of.

I just got a blind press release that I loved, because it told me about an event that's coming up that I didn't know about. But if the PR guy had sent it and written a salutation lke "dear editor, you should write about this, but not until tomorrow", I would have had a similar reaction to Chris'

Wait Chris Wait, I'm going to take a different spin. Not because you are flat out wrong, but because maybe, just maybe someone else needs to get a lesson.

Let's just say CellSpin Tom is just a guy taking orders, or just a guy stressed out doing too much with too little.

Here comes the lesson.

Any CEOs, CFOs, or (insert favorite letters here) that think they can do Public Relations, Blogger Relations, or any other kind of relations on the cheap, Forgetaboutit!. We don't live in mass society anymore.

Here are your choices

1) Plan ahead, think about PR before you build the product, not when are you two weeks away from releasing it

2) Start with the idea that no one in this whole world, including your family gives a rip about your stuff. Now what do you have to do to convince them otherwise

3) Spend some money, don't listen to your brother-in-law’s nephew who said he can get you on You Tube. And I don't mean spend money on distribution. I mean spend money on time. Time to read, learn, approach, and engage in a relationship.

Any relationship worth having requires your attention and a little cash.

I'm with Seth E; I think it was just a bonehead move. Nothing overtly disrespectful or malicious.

But...make an example of one, teach many.

@Albert - Very interesting. I don't disagree that communications professionals add a layer of strategy and tactics that could help those like Tom. But I wonder if a shift is coming. Does Tom have to pay YOU to DO the work, or just to teach him?

The tools are cheap and free. But the skills? Now that's what they should be paying you for, right?

PR types, what do you think of that?

Kudos, Chris, you've always been one of my favorite bloggers AND humans - because I do sort of "know" you but more importantly, the comments on this post are proof of the pudding you've been trying to cook for several months at least: that it's great comments that make a blog, and hence its author a great read.

Thanks Chris and to all those thoughtful commenters!

Indeed, the same tools that make communication easy also make error and abuse easy. It began with the phone, and by the way as someone else wrote, to the BBB: Learn something about a business before you call and ask for protection money from them.

If you can't begin a conversation about a new product or service with something like "This is right up your alley..." you probably should start it with that person.

I love this post very funny as well.

I hope others take a lesson from this.

@randulo

Or if you can't begin with "This is right up your alley", you should start with "This is right down your toilet but..."

Nice job Chris!

I love it when you can prove the power of social networking with examples from your own experience.

@Chris- responding as a PR type (or at least someone with lots of PR experience who is currently doing the community thing)

Albert does have a tiny bit of a point, as do Sonia and Seth E. The pressure to get some ink is huge, so as an agency or even in-house pr, you want to try and cover all bases..

The hardest thing I ever did was say to my boss. "No, I'm not going to pitch him/her now My angle isn't compelling enough (at least for now) so I am going to wait for the right time and place to do this"

So, it all goes back to relationships. If you want to be a savvy/interesting/marketable PR guy/gal, it takes lots of PATIENCE...

Chris, that should have successfully scared the #@$@$# out of anyone who would think to do that again. It should actually be used as an example in a business communications/ marketing class.
Great job...great point.

What's amazing about this is that it's easier than ever before to know your audience. Between blogs, Facebook, MySpace and everything else out there under the sun, there is no excuse for this sort of blind cold calling anymore. Especially when you are talking about someone as open and transparent as The Brogan. It's not like he hides himself, or is difficult to get to know!

My Chris Brogan, I am seling nothing, but I called you one day, since you have a published [phone number] ! As you know I am a 72 year old F--T with time on my hands, but spent many years in Belly To Belly Marketing and Sales ! Only a novice would take any source for granted ! I have decided to Brand Myself and will ask You, Steve Rubel and Guy Kawasaki to each write 100 free articles for my blog, but put my name on them !
On my blog I have Mike Bailey's app ! One voice message is from a fellow who wanted me to add his stuff to my blog , as you know my blog is a hobby and I add a lot stuff Free why not ! He didn't know how to ask ! God help the person with no social skills who has something to sell!

funny, I got the exact same email from "Tom" and for a few moments toyed with breaking his "embargo" but I didn't. I do get a ton of these, and yes, PR people are still doing it.

Funny thing is, some marketing guy in a dark cellar is trying to figure out why this approach is wrong. And the PR people who haven't figured out how to build relationships - that is why we're in PR, right - think you're just being flippant. When building a network, or trying to attract people to your network, do something for them and they will willingly help you. Dump something on their doorstep and their more likely to step on it and dismiss it. Thanks for this post.

Can't believe this still happens either. I have the same class of idiots posting comments to my blog promoting their social networking sites... Seems kinda silly that they don't understand that this would turn folks off.

interesting that Tom isn't listed on http://www.cellspin.net/about/

Oh, and hey, I couldn't resist:
http://flickr.com/photos/howardgr/2451331423/

Chris wrote:
"The tools are cheap and free. But the skills? Now that’s what they should be paying you for, right?"

As the tools make 'doing' the work easier, the competition for jobs is going to be finding people that can do it well. If you want to stay employed in this industry, you can't blame your own ignorance. The resources are available to learn at least the basics.

This goes far beyond PR, though they have some of the most visible failures.

Howard Greenstein's photo is a riot!

Check it out.

@Marshal - you are a great guy and may call me any time.

I quite agree, John.

As many have already commented, it's amazing that stuff like this stil happens. If blindly pitching (not really knowing the publication or station) doesn't work with print and broadcast media, what makes someone think it will work with social media?

Thanks for calling them out on this one, Chris.

Chris - very creative photo! I tend to agree with others who think that Tom wasn't really sure what he was doing when he put the release out there. I doubt he even realized the negative implications of this blind approach. As a person new to social media (still getting my feet wet), you can bet that I wouldn't start blindly sending out releases until I was sure I knew my audience and had throughly researched the forum for promoting my work.

Love that your blog gives us newbies something to think about.

Am curious to know if Tom has written you back?

Hey Chris (that's my twin's name!)
I looked at the about section too on cellspin.

http://www.cellspin.net/about/

I don't think Tom works there. He's probably a consultant who works for 10 hours a week.

It looks like it's a very small company in its infancy stages. It looks like most of these guys are good guys who are learning the ropes as it goes.

I doubt they have much more than a $2,000 marketing budget (I say this from my own startup experience.) Basically you have a bunch of really smart guys who come up with a product who are brilliant engineers but don't know how to get the word out. So, they hire whoever they can afford. That's just how cash strapped start ups are. Been there, done that lol.

Given that they look like such a newbie startup I figure that seasoned experts like ourselves can be a little more tolerant of any unintended faux pas their consultants might commit, especially since he is not even mentioned on the team.

I just tagged this in del.icio.us under "socialmediabitchslap." And I'll be using this example in an upcoming presentation. Thanks, Chris!

It seems like only a few people are willing to admit that they did the same thing once upon a time. I will say that I used to be in fundraising, and it was a scary thing, being asked to just make those funds appear. I wanted to take time building relationships, but received pressure from my boss to show results immediately.

What I have learned since the days of pitching before building a relationship, is that it is ok to come back to a boss and say that there is a better way. Now, doing this at the 11th hour is probably not as easy. But, I have learned over the last few years to plan better, focus on the value of relationships with partners and customers, and to advocate for my ideas.

Oh, and I also got out of fundraising...

Thanks, Chris, for reminding me why it is not only ok, but imperative, that I research and learn before I leap into things.

@Tyson pretty much summed it up (as did the commentators he cited).

It's not easy, though, to be in this profession. Patience and time is in short supply, especially in the fast paced world of the Triple-Dubbya.

I think the most helpful article I have read on this topic was from Kevin Dugan (badpitchblog.blogspot.com) titled "Pitching a Blog" (my apologize, I've re-searched for 15 minutes and can't find the source). If you're smarter than I, I urge you to find it.

It's number one take away, above all, "Relationships first, pitching second."

Quality "PR" requires a lot of juggling, especially when you're trying to do it for nearly a million sites. It's all about concentrating on a few key categories and being their for good writers in those categories. Help them before you help yourself. That means using your knowledge and ability even if it's not your story.

There have been several times over the last couple of months where someone to whom I have pitched a story to has decided not to write about it. I find that more than perfectly acceptable. As a blogger myself, sometimes I just plain don't like the story-- it's not my voice. However, I still offered my help for any time in the future. Some of those writers have come back to ask for any help on a completely different story and I've found additional information, reached out to find what they need to make their angle work. They truly appreciate that, and I hope that they'll catalog it in their mind under the folder "That guy's pretty awesome."

They now know that, to me, it's not just about getting my story out there, it's about telling a story. And that's what good PR does: tell a story.

That being said, the more bad pitches and bad PR, the easier my job is. Tongue in cheek.

brilliant. and unless I missed it in the comment stream, Tom didn't bother to monitor your response to his juicy PR slag. I hear Randi's comment above, but I disagree: a "cash strapped startup" shouldn't crap on the blogging community they hope to WOM them into the acquisition-o-sphere. And even if they are newbies, at least subscribe to google alerts about buzz Cellspin generates - good or bad, and deal with your misfires. Compare this botched go to Mashable's love fest on twitter brand management - http://tinyurl.com/6pk9kx. By the way - I hate PR carpetbombing for the same reason I hate "360 marketing" - irritatingly pervasive ubiquity does not a relationship make.

I agree with much that has been said here, and I think Albert Maruggi and SethE have illuminated the main causes for this kind of mistake. Too often, start-ups and small-to-medium size companies want to cut corners and use their existing staff or worse, an inexperienced intern, to do their social media outreach, whether or not these people have any significant training in PR or involvement in social media. The C-suite execs or middle managers put pressure on them to produce quickly because they have not done serious marketing and public relations planning before or along with their product/services development.

Seasoned PR consultants get calls like this all too often, from harried marketing directors who are way behind in planning a strategy and kicking off an effective PR outreach program. Suddenly they realize that they also need to be involved in social media and community building to effectively reach their market niches; but they haven't given themselves or their overwhelmed direct reports adequate time to become involved in a real conversation with the targeted media contacts, especially bloggers. It also means they aren't up to speed on content, topics, guidelines and other essentials before they make the pitch. Usually they have no clue about what a social media release is, or what should be included in a social newsroom on their web site. I can tell you that I have turned down projects like this many times, which only makes their timeline shorter.

Much of this is about managing teams or departments effectively within a company, so that marketing and public relations departments are included in the product or services development cycle at the earliest possible point, and communication is timely and effective between departments. That way, the timeline for effective PR and social media outreach is not always on crunch mode, and appropriate staff or consultants have enough time to engage in the community and develop relationships before pitching.

While not excusing the mistakes by any means, I'm attempting to stick up for overwhelmed staff here, as well as independent consultants, and explain why I think these mistakes occur. Hopefully, as companies, trade associations and nonprofit organizations become wiser about social media and community building, these mistakes will happen less frequently. As more people get involved in social media in their personal lives, hopefully that experience will trickle over to their business lives as well. A social community lives 24 hours a day, not just during traditional work hours.

Wow. This post and string of comments should be part of any PR 101 training module. Very valuable stuff. Presumably ol' Tom will have learned a valuable lesson himself from all of this feedback. I have to feel for what I imagine to be Tom's predicament, expressed so clearly and generously by Cathryn Hrudicka. The fact of the matter is CEOs and CMOs often undermine their PR staff by enforcing implausible goals and irredeemable tactics. They don't see value in paying for staff to spend time on Twitter and Facebook or to attend social media conferences. They don't see PR as an investment. Some PR managers are old school and don't do a good enough job of training younger staff who may have the right instincts and native skills but are directed elsewhere. What it boils down to is someone, perhaps like Tom, being made to feel his job is on the line if he does not do as directed. Unfortunately if that is the case, the only option is to use posts such as these to plead another case, or find a better job. And luckily there are indeed many PR managers who DO get it and are looking to build new models.

This one had me laughing! Your word imagery is perfect.

I know I'm a little late to this conversation, but I had to throw in my two cents. I was just about to go on a rant about stupid PR people making our profession look bad again... then I stopped and did what we're encouraging him to do -- homework. It seems that Tom is likely employed by CellSpin, and not a PR firm… but much of my rant still applies.

A couple weeks ago Michael Arrington aired his grievances in a similar manner (although much more harshly, as to be expected), and some poor intern’s reputation was damaged. I don't know who Tom Mahon is, but odds are that he’s a ‘doer’ not a decision-maker (so long as I'm looking at the correct "about us" page on Cellspin.net).

It’s the decision-makers and those giving the marching orders – the higher-ups at these companies and agencies – that need to be reprimanded and made aware that old school tactics will not fly here. This is not just another avenue for the same type of communication... and making the same mistakes here will not be similarly tolerated (as so many journalists have become accustomed to PR spam).

Chris, I don’t blame you for sharing this story, and I hope bloggers continue to do the same until every offender is personally effected. And from reading the comments above, there is some understandable frustration with PR firms... so I have to wonder what the best route is to get to these decision-makers who are either (1) ignorant about new media and unwilling to learn or (2) too lazy to teach younger employees.

@Kristen

I think you've summed it up. I think anyone and everyone who is going to dabble in this field need to do some homework and spend some time meditating on what it's like to be in the shoes of whoever they're writing.

One good story is more influential than ten poor ones.

Chris-

Thank god I saw this post before I sent out my email blast.

But you would want to know about my new company wouldn't you? Pretty Please?


Great post.

mike

As a regular reader I had to do some research ...

and Now it ALL makes Sense :)

Chris Brogan works for utterz... and these cellspin guys do the same thing as Chris new company ... mobile posting stuff ...

I love startup rivalry :)

http://mashable.com/2008/02/20/chris-brogan-utt...

what Chris would do for a couple of dollars :)

I used to look up to you Chris !

Now I am really interested in knowing what the community really thinks .. given what I have learnt ....

Randi.

Now sure what to think of Chris now ...

Chris,

In your article you didn't point out that you are on the payroll of a CellSpin compeitor, Utterz (http://mashable.com/2008/02/20/chris-brogan-utt...).

You owe your readers that full disclosure. I read in the Mashable article that you take the high road and cover philosophical and sociological issues. Good; otherwise your rant comes across as just another competitive corporate hatchet job.

Tom of CellSpin

It's irrelevant whether Chris works for a competitor of yours. That doesn't detract from the point, which is that you clearly didn't do your research before carpet bombing your press release. In fact, it only makes it even clearer that you didn't do your homework. If you had, you probably would have known that Chris works for your competitor, and not wanted him to get the heads up on your news.

I agree with you Mark ... tom should have done that ...

Being a regular reader ..My point is my respect for chris has gone down :(

being on the Board of utterz :) I want to know who told chris to write this post to earn his new paycheck :)

love the startup rivalry , if we can even call it that ..

At least my post brought tom to respond ... and bring out some of the motives for chris post ... but I also know from my past experiences .. carpet bombing does not work ..

Always read the article with no bias .. but Always Always .. Question the witers motives and agenda also.. if you really want to know the truth !

We learned something today : Money and Board seat changes everything :)

Randi.

Enjoyable read, and I agree with Katie H, the word imagery was excellent. You have the gift.

Doggone it, I don't have anything to sell. And I'm not trying to change the world. I have a small blog of my own, which is largely an experiment in self expression and learning to use a broad range of publishing tools. I also oversee blogs for a couple of organizations I am a part of.

I enjoy reading your blog and frequently recommend your posts to my company's marketing folks. So if I lob something over the fence, you can just ignore it - just please, no tongue lashing like you gave Tom.

Despite being a fan of your blog, I'm inclined to agree with some of the "sympathizers" here, who say "Well, but Chris, he's just a guy taking orders and doing his best to keep body and soul together."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not carrying any water for Cell Spin (but I'm not on the Utterboard either). And Tom's not my cousin or anyone I know (but neither are you, aside from a few comments I've made and an occasional LinkedIn answer sending ppl your way).

I don't think Tom's some droid just doing Darth Vader's bidding, but he's no Sith Lord either. He's probably more like a storm trooper - an enlisted guy who could probably do better and be nicer, but is really just earning his wings. Couldn't resist the nerdy cross-era Star Wars ref.

In the end, though, I have to congratulate Tom - I'm betting a few of these good "followers of Chris" are going to follow up and find out what Cell Spin is peddling. Any publicity is good publicity, so nice back-door job on a top-rated blog, dude.

Dear everybody, and this is a riot--

I'm not on the payroll of Utterz. I'm on the advisory board. If you know what that means, it means that I'm someone who gives them advice if they ask me for it.

Further, I don't know anything about CellSpin because I didn't read your press release beyond the first two paragraphs.

So, nice try, but not accurate. Your "research" points to an advisory board post for no money, nor do I have a specific horse in the game.

And Randi- if you're a regular reader, I've not once heard from you before, nor do you link back to your blog, nor do you show me any sign that you're not a splog comment backing up another opinion.

Tom - finally ,I didn't crap on your company, I crapped on YOU. So your version of telling my readership that I'm being disingenuous is that I have something against your company.

I crapped on you for lobbing a press release at me.

So thanks for obfuscating.

It is hard to believe that who Chris brogan represents has anything to do with this Topic. Chris did the right thing in attempting to teach some one to respect his territory ! We all have the right to accept or reject content ! Their is a distinction between marketing,selling and public relations ! These three areas are manned by paid professional's! Web marketing is driven by semantics,general semantic,s and mathematics ! I don,t know Tom but I feel that if he does not adhere to the basics his requests will be ignored ! It is very naive to think that every spin is labeled with, I wrote this and these are the flock I represent ! Tom crying that your Company was picked on is childish ! I was introduced by Chris NO CHARGE to A fellow Andy Quayle who has helped me a lot ! Chris gave my friend Monte Silver at World Podcast Forum who is in Israel some great advice { No Charge]! Chris is very accessible and extremely kind and very BUSY ! I attempt to repay his kindness by bookmarking his content , but if I want his expertise for my self that will generate profit for me I expect to PAY!

I think it's a joke that anyone would question the integrity of Chris' post based on the fact that he is an Utterz adviser. If anything, your respect for Chris should go UP and you should take the opportunity to learn from this mistake. Chris is doing LOTS of people a great service by bringing this out.

Ever wonder why the words "Community" and "Communication" are so similar? You've got to have a conversation, not just walk into the room and yell a request at a person you've never talked to before and expect them to tell all their friends how great you are.

It's about being genuine and real.

The more companies that learn their lesson from this, the better off we all will be.

THANKS CHRIS!

the only positive response to this should have been
"sorry that offended you. It was not intentional, How can i make it better?"

that's good customer service

to come back with a false accusation, which also implied dishonesty is just beyond bad pr and horrible cs.

i think it's actually proof in the pudding of chris's original post. That this person has no grasp on what this is all about.

@Shannon

Thanks for putting it in Star Wars terms. Tracy Jordon would be happy.

I love 30 Rock.

@Shannon - storm trooper. I think you've hit it perfectly. And after all, aren't most of us stormtroppers? Even Fett was a clone.

Hey Chris,

I respect you in a lot of ways But just to be straight I'm the reader, you're the blogger!! I don't need a blog to read other blogs. Nor do I need to regularly comment to be a regular reader. I'm not sure how I can be back up since I'm really not taking anyone else's side here.

I could care less about utterz, cellspin, tom, whatever, I was just reading your blog.
Btw: we all know Advisory boards aren't charity work. You're on there for a reason, whether it’s for shares (10,000 shares or 25,000 shares, annual fee), connections, etc....

Since we’re on the topic of relationships, maybe bloggers need to learn something from facebook and be more open about their own relationships with Every Posts they make.

I propose: Every Post to have a Relationship Index ! : )

It would be great. : ) This way, readers can know where the blogger is coming from for Each Post they make on the blog and what level of relationship the blogger has with the product and this transparency could give bloggers a little more credibility.

On each review or post this relationship index will come up so the reader knows where the blogger is coming from.

The whole talk is about relationships but the nature of relationships are changing. You talk about it as if it’s a given but it’s not. There are assumptions in every relationship no matter how deep or superficial they may be.

Does being twitter buddies makes you good enough acquaintances ?

Exactly how many pokes does someone need to poke you on facebook before you agree to read their press release : ) ?

Or maybe it takes more than that, maybe it takes a few holiday e-cards and a few funny forwards to build a nice virtual relationship.

Should there be more?

Product guys take you out for dinner. Then would you give a proper review on a product because you have a good relationship?

But I would imagine nothing beats being on the Advisory Board with shares : ) for a good review

Then you will inform your readers of cutting edge technology?

I wonder, Is that what bloggers do for every review?

If Bloggers care about relationship so much .. as the whole discussion has shown Then I think for every post a blogger makes about someone else, they have to show their relationship Index with the subject. : )

The blogging community really should come up with their own code of ethics the way financial analysts or political advisors in the mainstream media. Sometimes do : ) I don’t really trust the main stream media either …

So don’t feel Alone !

With me trust is something you earn over time … I don’t give it to CNN or FOX .. just because they are CNN or FOX ..

Randi.

Hi Randi--

Great points, and seems like there's a lot of future posts in here.

I got to wondering what I'd said about Utterz before or after being put on their board (for fewer shares, I think, and I'm not even sure if I ever sent back the paperwork to claim such - ask people who try to get me to do things for them: I'm bad with sending back paperwork).

Here's a search of my blog for utterz. I was made a member of their advisory board in February of 2008. I couldn't find a review (smashing or otherwise) for the product on my site. I found several uses of the tool, and several mentions of it as something people might consider for their toolbox. So, I've mentioned it a lot, but never reviewed it in any depth, and haven't said TONS about it beyond mentioning it a lot as a tool to use.

My About page tells you my relationship with them, and further, I disclose in posts (most all of them after February) that I'm on the advisory board.

So back to my point: I had no idea WHAT CellSpin did beyond the first paragraph, so I wasn't complaining about it based on it being a potential competitor for a tool I use and advise on. I was shitting on a PR tactic.

Are you truly still thinking this is somehow based on the software? Did you re-read the post? I have.

But, to your point, I'm doing some work in the world of relationships/trust and that kind of stuff, and writing on that for an upcoming book. Maybe this very post and your input will help catalyze my ideas on what goes into it.

And thanks for reading. Funny time to make your first (that I can recall) comment, but just the same, your points are valid, and I'm glad you're part of the conversation.

Guess I've got some good blog topics for later, too.

Thanks again, truly.

Chris, I don't know you, so I hope you're not pissed off about this comment. But, Brian Solis Twittered to Facebook that I should read this post. I like, though don't always agree with, what Brian says. This time I'm glad I followed his advice and read your post.

What can I say? Have I ever been guilty of doing the same as Tom of Cellspin? Um, yes, I suppose I have. Do I think it's a good thing to do? No, I certainly don't. Was my time ever wasted by PR people when I was a journalist? Absolutely. Should I have known better, then? You bet.

When this kind of thing occurs, is it always because the PR person is an a-hole and needs to be flamed and called out? No and No. Is it sometimes just a mistake or bad judgment that can be corrected with civil response? Yes and Yes.

Do journalists and bloggers ever make mistakes and show bad judgment? Yes and Yes. When they do that, is always because they are a-holes and need to be flamed and called out? No and No.

So, why the anger? Is this really what the transparency and authenticity of Web 2.0 are all about ... the ability to "out" someone and punish them on the live web, to "make them pay" for having wasted one's time or offended one's sensibilities?

I saw many a sanctimonious journalist over the years use their power to "go after" people who had offended them in one way or another. It's not a pretty thing. Neither is the calling out of PR people on the live web who have made mistakes in how to approach bloggers with a story pitch.

If you must, think of PR people as dogs -- much more admirable to try and train them properly to behave in the way you would like, than to revert to the somewhat brutish behavior of kicking and humiliating them in public.

Hi Michael and thanks for coming by--

I should start by saying that I'm not as angry as I am disappointed. I'm rarely angry, as people who know me can attest.

There are plenty of bloggers and journalists doing things in crappy ways, and just as many people ready to call them out for that.

Is it weird/wrong to say "I have a lot of friends in PR"? Does that come off like Ross Perot? I was just at the New Comm Forum in California, put on by SNCR. Great bunch of folks, and I learned a lot. I'm a big fan of GOOD PR.

What I'm not a fan of, and thus the post, is the whole "lob the bomb" method.

But as this post (and most every post I write) has shown me, there's always a lot more to the story than my initial take, and the body of comments on this post is more meaningful and useful to me than the original post.

PR people aren't dogs.

Was it too much? Do I owe Tom an apology?

--Chris...

This is terrific. Thanks for a good laugh and well understood take-away.

Transparency trials: good for the PR person and good for the blogger. I've learned a thing or two here. Thanks!

@chrisbrogan,

Thanks for your contribution to the recent "pitchmeme" of bagging on PR people that don't get it. If you tell them to "understand their audience" and "tailor their pitch" they will say "we already do this" but in fact they might not know how bloggers are different from journalists. So people like @briansolis have been trying to explain. Maybe you could follow up on this post with a 5 step program for PR people and companies to do the right thing. I think "don't fart on my face" is a good start but could be more detailed for people who don't get it.

disclosure: I follow your Tweets (and like your Tweetstream) but don't really read your blog so don't flame me if you already wrote about this, and I'm not even going to bother to pitch you on my business. :) I'll keep my flatulence to myself!

BTW, Mr CellSpin just made himself look foolish by getting all defensive on the comments he left hehe.

-E

@elliottng (on Twitter)

"Comment by tom of cellspin on April 30, 2008 @ 12:08 am"

Chris - Is that anonymous comment really the original offender?

If so, this thread is unsatisfying in a way. I was expecting a mea culpa of sorts...

Another lesson learned is not to get into a flame war in the comments of the blog you just blew your pitch to.

Trying to fix the problem instead of fanning the flames might have been a better move.

It wasn't too much and you own nobody an apology. Changing old habits can take a while, but it's worth the effort in re-education for folks like Tom. Given his approach, it's doubtful that he'll come back to learn from his mistake. At least he didn't reach out to Stowe "I'm only taking pitches via Twitter" Boyd.

um. Owe him an apology?
no.

Offer him conversation?
you've just done that.

Put an update into the post that says
"Take the time to read the comment stream?"
sure.

Consider that they have received more traffic from this than they would have otherwise?
hmmm.

A couple comments here and I didn't have time to ready all 70+ of the others, but I did scan a few and I really like where this conversation has headed. This subject of transparency and relevancy and 'only getting what I want to get' is always an interesting, and sometimes heated subject to talk about. I just have a few thoughts to share:

1. As far as marketing/PR goes, there always has to be a balance between what we think we want, what we think we don't want and what we actually DO want, but we just don't know it yet. It's a balance of permission-based vs. disruptive measures and even though I'm a huge fan of things that I think I want, there have been times when I had to be disrupted to realize that there are things that I want that I had no freakin' clue about.

2. Even though you wrote a pretty harsh blog on this guy, I still just Googled him and I actually just read the press release that you mentioned in your post. In my opinion, this was one of the best things that could have happened to good ol' Tom. The product and CellSpin are now on my radar, whether I like it or not.

So, I guess the question is - if you are launching a major new service that you want to get to the masses, how do you get it out to the world? Especially is you're a guy like Tom who has probably zero online social equity on MySpace or Facebook?

Buy ads? To me, that's nearly just as disruptive.

I'm sure that he could have leveraged other partners that would have come on board the CellSpin marketing train because they would like to get a mention in his new product offering. Partners who are already spending marketing dollars and that he can piggy-back on.

Who knows - maybe I'm crazy, but I'm sure that he's got other options that would have worked better - but pissing off a blogger seems to have worked pretty well, too. :)

Good times.

Sure, there are tons of bad PR people out there. But, Chris, please don't forget your own suggestion for blogging - don't be mean.

I'm a lurker, not a critic...but I had to jump in. I think this Utterz full disclosure comment is a bit silly. Maybe if Cellspin did that sort of research before spamming Chris they would have avoided this 'rant'. No?

...and why would they want to avoid it? :)

Great post and a pitch perfect response to the claim I keep hearing that social media/networking apps are nothing more than an extension of our societies determination to isolate ourselves from one another.

Hi Chris,

I'm new to your blog, basically because I started following you on Twitter and saw your post- and I have to say, the way the comments unfolded is interesting.

First of, I have to empathize with you- of course that feels like crap.

The only thing I think missing, and few readers commented on it (sorry, I didn't remember the names, and the list is too long for me to dig back through it!) that whatever grievous errors Tom made, you are certainly allowed to feel the way you feel, and, on reflection, it would be great to see some compassion coming in.

If we're really wanting to teach people about relationship-building, which is millenia-old and has nothing to do with technology, then putting people into a learning space involves bringing some compassion to the conversation.

Just a balance between having the true reaction you're having, and remembering that the other gal/guy is human, too.

These kinds of reactions bouncing back and forth is how we get entrenched in the first place.

So, just a thought on tone. Otherwise, I completely agree with your points. Thanks for being so honest and open about the whole thing. That's worth big points in my book.

Chris, I definitely don't think you owe Tom an apology. His comment, when he finally did join the conversation here, was abrasive and defensive. I've seen far harsher blasts than yours against bad PR tactics/practitioners. You were relatively gentle.

Besides, as many have alluded, there's no such thing as bad PR, right? So all of this conversation is likely bringing about good things for Tom and/or Cellspin, assuming what they're offering has value. He should be thanking you, not expecting an apology!

The absolute worst thing you can do to a PR person is not flame us in your blog. It's ignore us. :P

( @LaraK on twitter... blog to come soon! )

Chris, All:
Great discussion! Good points all around. I've been on the media, agency and client sides and these things usually become "PR Pet Peeves." I'm glad this is more helpful/hopeful To that end, Jason Falls nails it here (http://www.socialmediaexplorer.com/2008/04/28/h...)
Chris, thanks for moderating a lively debate!
ahg3

LOL!!!
Good times indeed! I love me some good drama in the morning! :P

I had to check out cellspin for all the comotion it caused.... good to say that at least the product is better than the PR man (contract or otherwise)

So, Chris did anyone from cellspin ever write back to you? I'm sure that's on people's mind right now after all the responses.

@Ryan Hupfer, ahhhh you're probably right!

Chris, won't you feel badly if Tom should lose his job over this? He sent you an embargoed press release not a steaming pile of dog poop. I didn't care much for his response but you could be hurting this man's career. I hope you'll do the right thing.

@Keith - Actually, I have to say that I got a *great* and polite email from Ian Fung, CEO of CellSpin, and he seemed like a decent guy. We talked a bit about it, and his last point was that THIS conversation was out of his hands. Meaning, I don't think he wants to weigh in on this part of the discussion.

If I were CEO, would I want to jump in? Not sure. Because again, I'm not attacking his company. I'm pooping on an impression one person left me. Seems like something that will blow over.

@Eleanor - I don't want Tom to lose his job, but do I want people like Tom to do something a little different next time? Sure. But then, I'm still considering what that is. That's a blog post after I finish with some day job stuff.

Thanks again.

I actually emailed Tom and told him to respond if he had the time...guess he's doesn't? Also, at least Tom didn't contact you from a PR agency doing this - just another guy trying to get some traction in this crazy webified world of ours.

I'm guessing that sometimes you have to piss a few people off in order to accomplish your goals in life. Dare I give the breaking eggs & omelette example?

Oh crap, I just did.

thanks chris. just wanted to clear something else up. i am not the CEO of CellSpin. i am a co-founder and the software architect. like you said, this is a PR issue and there was no mention about the company. to be honest, i'm a little out of my depth here about such things. i will leave my CEO bobby singh to comment. as was already posted here, you can find more information about the co-founders at http://www.cellspin.net/about/

Thanks Chris. I really dig your blog, I really do. But, does making an example out of this guy or teaching him how you think he, or anyone else for that matter, should be a good publicist accomplish the goals of your blog?

To be honest, after seeing someone get "outed" and the comments that fed this thing - I would be a little scared to start that relationship you suggested for those who wanted to pitch you.

As a true fan, I really hope you'll do the right thing.

Do it Bobby, do it.

p.s. Here's the press release:

http://biz.yahoo.com/cnw/080429/ca_cellspin_mob...

@Ian - sorry about that. I didn't read closely, evidently. And as the architect, you're right. Hide away and make great code. I'm not being facetious. That's a lot to deal with, and I wouldn't want to deal with all this either. (I used to be a partial architect at my old wireless organization, and I never touched marketing/pr/etc).

@Eleanor - interesting. So what should I have done differently, from your perspective?